Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
OK, pure semantics then.
We are still talking about one and the same thing, as in "but there is what can be done to help limit the disparities of opportunity between those born disadvantaged vs those born with advantage."
( That's quoting your OP.)
So I address the circumstances/conditions that are necessary in order to implement your ideas, which you don't seem to understand.
That's all.
Call it whatever you like but lots of comments in this thread well demonstrate the need to be clear about what the issue or goal or agenda truly is...
I try to accomplish that and you just mutter along about what you think will "fix" the problem and my response means I don't understand you? Of all I advocate along with a good many other thoughts expressed in this thread, you include how many to accomplish what you properly quote and put in bold again here?
"The only way" you say? Reads to me like just another excuse to blame immigrants for all our problems and even if your "closed coordinated system" where practical or possible, I surely don't understand how your "fix" is the end all panacea you seem to imagine.
Again, the real nut of my question boils down to whether you believe we should bother, because if you don't think so, progressive ideas like some I've touched upon are "nonstarters." Rely on charity and end of story. If you do think we as a country should bother beyond just relying on charity, then I'd say there is plenty more to consider than just your opinion.
Fair? Or do we still simply not understand one another?
Yes and even if you don't have to be a neurosurgeon to make it, you can't have "burger flipper" mentality and the truth is some people just do. They used to be able to get jobs which paid enough to live a modest life. We can keep dumbing down education to accommodate them but we are causing a lot of harm to society in doing so.
We're gonna need another plan, as the more menial jobs get replaced by robots and more immigrants.
Is it too few jobs that provide for a "modest life" or is it that the cost of a "modest life" is growing more and more expensive, i.e. that pesky gap between rich and poor and/or the forever more costly cost of living for all Americans...
Education is just one area to consider and it's not like we don't have other problems that need fixing in that arena too!
"Whatever the price is, those with the fattest wallets can obviously pay it. Peter Malkin graduated from Harvard Law School in 1958. He became a very wealthy real estate businessman, and huge donor. In 1985, the university’s indoor athletic facility was renamed the Malkin Athletic Center in his honor. All three of Malkin’s children went to Harvard. By 2009, five of his six college-age grandchildren had followed suit. (One brave boy dared to go to Stanford instead.)
Or how about Jared Kushner, Donald Trump’s son-in-law? Kushner was accepted into Harvard shortly after his father donated $2.5m. An official at Kushner’s high school said there was “no way anybody in the administrative office of the school thought he would, on the merits, get into Harvard. His GPA did not warrant it, his SAT scores did not warrant it.”
David E and Stacey Goel just gave $100m to Harvard. I’m going to go out on a limb here and say that their children probably have an excellent chance of Harvard admission.
Even those parents who are not in the wealthiest brackets, but are squarely in the upper middle class, can use their money to boost their kids’ chances, through tutors, SAT prep classes, athletic coaches. Students who apply early have better chances of admission, which favors more affluent families since early admission precedes financial aid decisions. Many colleges prefer students who have “shown an interest” in their college. How to show an interest? By visiting the campus – easy for those with money for flights and hotels, less so for those on modest or low incomes.
Small wonder that at elite colleges, including most of those targeted in the corruption scheme such as Yale, Duke, Stanford and Wake Forest, take more students from families in the top 1% of the income distribution than from those in the bottom 60% combined.
So hats off to FBI special agent Bonavolonta and his team for exposing the corruption admissions. But it is in fact simply the most visible sign of a much deeper problem with college admissions. Elite colleges are serving to reinforce class inequality, rather than reduce it."
Don't even get me started on these private vs public universities though apparently even UCLA got caught up in this big money game, proving yet again how big money can corrupt just about anything...
Better yet....go into the military and get paid to learn a trade AND earn college money! But that might require effort so scratch that....let's just give hand outs and make it easier to be poor...
That's sort of what Israel does. All high school grads serve 2 years in the Army (so ages 18 - 19). Gives them time to explore their interests, get a sense of where their strengths lie, and just mature a bit.
Call it whatever you like but lots of comments in this thread well demonstrate the need to be clear about what the issue or goal or agenda truly is...
I try to accomplish that and you just mutter along about what you think will "fix" the problem and my response means I don't understand you? Of all I advocate along with a good many other thoughts expressed in this thread, you include how many to accomplish what you properly quote and put in bold again here?
Yes, that's precisely what it means.
Quote:
"The only way" you say? Reads to me like just another excuse to blame immigrants for all our problems and even if your "closed coordinated system" where practical or possible, I surely don't understand how your "fix" is the end all panacea you seem to imagine.
No, I don't necessarily blame immigrants for "all our problems." The immigration ( legal and illegal alike) that so many are currently concerned with, is coming mostly from Mexico. But Mexicans were coming to the US already for ages. It's only logical for people from the poor country to seek jobs/opportunities across the border, with their wealthy neighbor, who is all willing to accept their offer of cheap labor and the profits that come with it.
So traditionally, Mexicans were thoroughly exploited, but they accepted their lot, for in return they were getting better money (and opportunities for their children had they decided to not to return to Mexico.)
So all in all it was a mutually beneficial arrangement, that was giving sufficient profits to American employers and at the same time was helping to keep Mexico's economy afloat, since a lot of those earned money were wired there.
But it all changed, when American employers decided that they can make EVEN MORE PROFITS, using the cheap Chinese labor, and made the deal with Chinese Communist Party, how to jointly exploit the Chinese workers.
What were they thinking at that point, that Mexicans would magically disappear, or they all of a sudden would become a "prosperous nation" - god knows. Who is going to hold responsible all sam waltons of this world for the mess they create in their greedy quest for more and more wealth and power?
However once the whole situation becomes an obvious mess down the line, and many are asking a question "now what?," I am merely pointing at the facts - it is what it is, and the US should either shut down the doors to ALL immigration and start taking the socialist rout ( obviously European, not Russian way,) OR to keep the doors open for cheap labor as it used to be, with unforeseen consequences.
You can create the "welfare state" in the closed system of coordinates, or you can keep that wheel of profits based on cheap labor churning. But it's one or the other and there is no way around it.
America can't feed and clothe all the "world's tired and poor" with the open door policies. It's not some "New Jerusalem," the ultimate "city on the shining hill," as some would try to imagine.
Quote:
Again, the real nut of my question boils down to whether you believe we should bother, because if you don't think so, progressive ideas like some I've touched upon are "nonstarters." Rely on charity and end of story. If you do think we as a country should bother beyond just relying on charity, then I'd say there is plenty more to consider than just your opinion.
Fair? Or do we still simply not understand one another?
That's sort of what Israel does. All high school grads serve 2 years in the Army (so ages 18 - 19). Gives them time to explore their interests, get a sense of where their strengths lie, and just mature a bit.
Would hate to think this would be a necessary part of life as an American. Some people don't want to carry a gun as part of "exploring their interests," let alone go to war, unless they absolutely must. Never mind the indoctrination that typically goes on in the military as well...
For better or worse, I'm not sure, I've really got to sign off now and get onto something worth doing!
Call it whatever you like but lots of comments in this thread well demonstrate the need to be clear about what the issue or goal or agenda truly is...
I try to accomplish that and you just mutter along about what you think will "fix" the problem and my response means I don't understand you? Of all I advocate along with a good many other thoughts expressed in this thread, you include how many to accomplish what you properly quote and put in bold again here?
"The only way" you say? Reads to me like just another excuse to blame immigrants for all our problems and even if your "closed coordinated system" where practical or possible, I surely don't understand how your "fix" is the end all panacea you seem to imagine.
Again, the real nut of my question boils down to whether you believe we should bother, because if you don't think so, progressive ideas like some I've touched upon are "nonstarters." Rely on charity and end of story. If you do think we as a country should bother beyond just relying on charity, then I'd say there is plenty more to consider than just your opinion.
Fair? Or do we still simply not understand one another?
Two words... School Choice. Let every student and their family opt for a better private school (assuming they meet admission requirements), most of which charge less in tuition than local public school districts are spending per student. Use the excess to pay for busing, etc., if necessary. NO MORE dumping billions and billions of dollars into a public education system that has ZERO accountability.
Minority families WANT this. HEED what Black and Hispanic adults are saying about education. Blacks and Hispanics are the two lowest demographic groups in academic achievement by 12th grade standards. The contrast is stark, and I'll post that data later, if you wish. In the meantime:
Quote:
"Pro-voucher voters among racial minorities overwhelmingly support Barack Obama, but they are baffled by the Democratic nominee's opposition to vouchers. They also say they are frustrated that Democratic leaders appear to be more concerned about keeping the peace with teachers unions --which adamantly oppose vouchers-- than about finding alternatives that could advance desperately needed education reforms for minority students.
...Public opinion polls also show solid support for school vouchers among minority parents. Sixty-five percent of adult African-Americans and 63 percent of adult Hispanics favor the use of vouchers, according to a national survey conducted earlier this year under the auspices of the journal Education Next and the Program on Education Policy and Governance at Harvard University. In the survey, more than half of minority adults gave higher marks to their local police than their public schools. "There is no doubt that on this issue, ...Obama has it wrong," Martin wrote."
We're gonna need another plan, as the more menial jobs get replaced by robots and more immigrants.
It's unlikely menial jobs will be replaced.
And, robots create jobs.
Take a robot-welder, like those used in auto plants. How does it get installed? You can't wave a magic wand and install it. It requires regular preventive maintenance, plus scheduled maintenance to replace oils and hydraulic fluids, filters and other items, and it requires periodic software upgrades, which necessitate analytical tests to ensure the software upgrade has the robot functioning properly.
So, a robot-welder actually creates 1.3 jobs. Replace three welders with three robots, and you've created 4 jobs, so you have a net gain of one job.
Automation and AI are not what you think they are, and won't have the impact you believe they will.
People are yapping about self-driving trucks. You won't see any for another 20-40 years, and when you do finally see them, they'll still have operators for any number of reasons. Diesel doesn't fall out of the sky into the fuel tank, and even if it's electric, you'll still need an operator to hook it up.
And, they'll still wreck. May not be as many accidents, but there'll still be accidents. You think State legislatures are going to allow driver-less trucks with hazardous materials cruise their their States and wreck, dumping toxic chemicals everywhere? No, they're going to want someone on the scene for reasons of responsibility and accountability.
Automation and AI are expensive, and don't always generate cost-savings, so small- and medium-sized companies aren't going to be taking advantage of it.
It's actually easy. Create the tax advantages that stimulate investment and hiring. The way to increase wages is to create scarcity of labor and make it possible to increase productivity.
Two words... School Choice. Let every student and their family opt for a better private school (assuming they meet admission requirements), most of which charge less in tuition than local public school districts are spending per student. Use the excess to pay for busing, etc., if necessary. NO MORE dumping billions and billions of dollars into a public education system that has ZERO accountability.
Minority families WANT this. HEED what Black and Hispanic adults are saying about education. Blacks and Hispanics are the two lowest demographic groups in academic achievement by 12th grade standards. The contrast is stark, and I'll post that data later, if you wish. In the meantime: Obama Questioned on Vouchers
2/3 of Black and Hispanic adults want school vouchers so their kids can escape their abysmal public schools.
And I'm sure we've all seen Waiting for Superman and Please, Mr. President Obama.
I'm sure you have Googled for the pros and cons about "School Choice," so I won't bother getting into the cons that are hard for me to ignore. Choice always sounds good, but as usual, it's not so simple and arguing that a public education system has "ZERO accountability" clearly demonstrates a certain bias that always gets in the way of intelligent discussion and conclusion. Maybe address the cons in an objective manner, and you might better make your case in my opinion.
Might just add that the public education system did pretty well for me and my kids. A very good "bang for the buck" far as I/we are concerned...
Take a robot-welder, like those used in auto plants. How does it get installed? You can't wave a magic wand and install it. It requires regular preventive maintenance, plus scheduled maintenance to replace oils and hydraulic fluids, filters and other items, and it requires periodic software upgrades, which necessitate analytical tests to ensure the software upgrade has the robot functioning properly.
So, a robot-welder actually creates 1.3 jobs. Replace three welders with three robots, and you've created 4 jobs, so you have a net gain of one job.
Automation and AI are not what you think they are, and won't have the impact you believe they will.
People are yapping about self-driving trucks. You won't see any for another 20-40 years, and when you do finally see them, they'll still have operators for any number of reasons. Diesel doesn't fall out of the sky into the fuel tank, and even if it's electric, you'll still need an operator to hook it up.
And, they'll still wreck. May not be as many accidents, but there'll still be accidents. You think State legislatures are going to allow driver-less trucks with hazardous materials cruise their their States and wreck, dumping toxic chemicals everywhere? No, they're going to want someone on the scene for reasons of responsibility and accountability.
Automation and AI are expensive, and don't always generate cost-savings, so small- and medium-sized companies aren't going to be taking advantage of it.
One of those things that I think you are wrong...
And I hope that I am wrong and you are correct.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
