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The "real discussion" according to you is always related to antisemitism, that "creep" that keeps the discussion from one related to the REASONS the U.N. resolutions critical of Israel have been issued. Rather than go on about the likes, including people CUT OFF and all the rest of the collateral noise, simply present the resolution you are referring to specifically, as written, and explain how/why you feel it does not properly reflect the problem being addressed.
No, you refuse to acknowledge that antisemitism influences the actions of the U.N. Why do you come onto every anti-Israel thread and dredge up history from 50 years ago in your efforts to demonize Israel? When I've brought up the horrible treatment the Arabs bestowed upon Jews, you always say "ancient history....let's get back to criticizing Israel." So, it's fair game to criticize Israel (correctly or not) for actions it took many decades ago, but "out of bounds" to criticize Arabs for actions it took (including driving nearly a million Jews from their homes) because it happened many decades ago?
Not sure what Britain has to do with this, as Britain's involvement was mainly following the fall of the Ottoman Empire after WW1 when the peacekeeping for the area was divided between Britain and France.
Britains peackeeping mandate given to it by the League of Nations, the forerunner to the UN, was very unpopular in Britain and to be honest most people didn't want the mandate.
Furthermore Britain was left with trying to keep the peace in Palestine, in the end both sides committed terrorist attrocities and Britain was condemned for not allowing Jewish mass immigration to Israel following WW2.
In the end Britain tried to please both sides by promising homelands but ended up pleasing neither as Jewisk immigration grew so did Arab Terrorism and the Arab uprising of 1936-9, later Jewish terrorist groups also attacked British forces.
Britain abstained from the UN vote to create the Jewish state of Israel, the only western nation to do so, because we suggested more dialogue with the Palestinians, as Britain was aware that the partion of Palestine could lead to perpetual war and disharmony in the region.
In the end Britain only abstained rather than voting against the creation oif Israel to appease Truman, and because we needed to secure a loan following WW2 which had left many British cities heavily bombed.
As for being attacked and invaded, the British have a long history of being attacked themselves and Britain was generaly a naval power, keeping a much larger navy but a much smaller army than other major European countries. Indeed much of the British Empire relied on local troops and police to keep order and in reation to defence, even in a country as vast as India there were never more than 70,000 British troops.
A little off topic, but reading about the expansion of the British Empire, one of the topics covered in this book I am finishing now, "Sapiens," is truly some remarkable history about how a people on one small island came to rule over what during its zenith? 400 million subjects? Nearly 25% of the world population? Living on about the same portion of the entire planet? Gulp. Spot of tea please...
Your lopsided bias against the Jewish state has you so mixed up you can't think straight,
1)Israel did not "make up" an "excuse" to attack. Enemy forces from three much larger countries were gathering at the border, within hours of obliterating Israel. Israel defended itself, thank G-d.
2) What do you mean "the US disagreed" with their actions? Are you not aware that Meir got approval ahead of time from the U.S. to launch the pre-emptive strike?
Would you have preferred Israel sit on its hands and let the Arabs blast them into oblivion? (My guess is yes....you would.)
There was a lot of tension on both sides in 1967 and Israel had their share in elevating the situation.
I was speaking generally that the US disagreed with many Israeli actions, not the 6 day war.
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Originally Posted by LearnMe
A little off topic, but reading about the expansion of the British Empire, one of the topics covered in this book I am finishing now, "Sapiens," is truly some remarkable history about how a people on one small island came to rule over what during its zenith? 400 million subjects? Nearly 25% of the world population? Living on about the same portion of the entire planet? Gulp. Spot of tea please...
TBH - the Palestine Mandate was not something than any one wanted, and was very unpopular in the UK, indeed we couldn't wait toi get our troops out of there.
As for the population, India made up most of it, however the same countries today have a population approaching 2.7 Billion.
No, you refuse to acknowledge that antisemitism influences the actions of the U.N. Why do you come onto every anti-Israel thread and dredge up history from 50 years ago in your efforts to demonize Israel? When I've brought up the horrible treatment the Arabs bestowed upon Jews, you always say "ancient history....let's get back to criticizing Israel." So, it's fair game to criticize Israel (correctly or not) for actions it took many decades ago, but "out of bounds" to criticize Arabs for actions it took (including driving nearly a million Jews from their homes) because it happened many decades ago?
Jeez....the bias. SMH.
I do not refuse to acknowledge any such thing, if/when I see it proven and/or when the resolution itself is obviously not based in fact, objectively speaking. Obviously antisemitism exists. Duh. Really no need to keep beating that drum, because none of that drum beat keeps me from considering these facts and issues objectively, no matter how hard you beat the drum or how long. For you it's all about agenda, to "demonize," to be antisemitic, on and on forever avoiding specific attention to the facts. Again, simply pick any resolution of your choice, present the actual resolution as written, and explain why it is not justified. Possible?
Right...
Far easier to throw dust in the air, make a bunch of noise, make false accusations, anything and everything to avoid simply addressing the actual facts of these matters.
I do not refuse to acknowledge any such thing, if/when I see it proven and/or when the resolution itself is obviously not based in fact, objectively speaking. Obviously antisemitism exists. Duh. Really no need to keep beating that drum, because none of that drum beat keeps me from considering these facts and issues objectively, no matter how hard you beat the drum or how long. For you it's all about agenda, to "demonize," to be antisemitic, on and on forever avoiding specific attention to the facts. Again, simply pick any resolution of your choice, present the actual resolution as written, and explain why it is not justified. Possible?
Right...
Far easier to throw dust in the air, make a bunch of noise, make false accusations, anything and everything to avoid simply addressing the actual facts of these matters.
Double standard, as per LearnMe: "I will condemn Israel ONLY, and you are to address the awful things the Jewish country does. Don't muddy the waters by showing how Muslim-majority countries have done much worse. We are only criticizing the Jewish-majority country." The question I keep asking, for which there is no good answer, is WHY do you focus all your condemnation on one single country?
What happens is that you want to complain only about the Jewish country, and you cast aside any of the wrongdoing of the Arabs. That's my point. That's the point about the lopsided out-of-balance condemnation that the U.N. bestows upon Israel.
These exchanges always boil down to one thing: Your laser-like focus on condemning Israel ONLY. When I bring up the horrific crap that Arabs have done to Jews, like expel nearly a million of them in order to make the ME "Judenfree" (now they just have Israel to target), you always want to circle back to why the Jews are so bad, via a criticism of Israel. (At least you're not quoting any of the "bad" Old Testament verses you did previously to cast dispersions on Judaism as a religion. You realized that you were demonstrating the very thing I've been pointing out: negative attitudes toward Jews, positioned as laser-like focus against Israel.)
Double standard, as per LearnMe: "I will condemn Israel ONLY, and you are to address the awful things the Jewish country does. Don't muddy the waters by showing how Muslim-majority countries have done much worse. We are only criticizing the Jewish-majority country." The question I keep asking, for which there is no good answer, is WHY do you focus all your condemnation on one single country?
What happens is that you want to complain only about the Jewish country, and you cast aside any of the wrongdoing of the Arabs. That's my point. That's the point about the lopsided out-of-balance condemnation that the U.N. bestows upon Israel.
These exchanges always boil down to one thing: Your laser-like focus on condemning Israel ONLY. When I bring up the horrific crap that Arabs have done to Jews, like expel nearly a million of them in order to make the ME "Judenfree" (now they just have Israel to target), you always want to circle back to why the Jews are so bad, via a criticism of Israel. (At least you're not quoting any of the "bad" Old Testament verses you did previously to cast dispersions on Judaism as a religion. You realized that you were demonstrating the very thing I've been pointing out: negative attitudes toward Jews, positioned as laser-like focus against Israel.)
How shameless can you be?
Now, not only do you "put words in my mouth," but you put your words in quotes as if I wrote them. Truly unbelievable. I thought I'd seen it all, even from you, but how low can you go?
I keep answering your questions but either you are truly beyond ability to understand or your love of repeating yourself is entirely overwhelming you. You write as if this is the only topic I consider in this forum. The only topic I follow in the news. As if Israel is the center of the universe for me and everyone else. Hardly!
When the topic of the thread is Trump or the markets or white supremacy or conservative vs liberal ideology or racism or immigration or whatever the topic, what I mostly do in the threads I choose is argue what is right vs wrong, objectivity vs blind bias, sound logic based on facts and reason vs falsehoods and propaganda, truth vs nonsense.
Simply look up the threads I've started as you can easily do and consider how utterly ridiculous your notion that I "condemn Israel only." You simply encounter me occasionally in these threads about the Israeli/Palestinian problem because that's where our paths tend to cross now and then, actually rare for me considering all the time I waste on other topics in this forum, but you do have a way of prolonging this charade of intelligent discussion.
"The question I keep asking, for which there is no good answer, is WHY do you focus all your condemnation on one single country?"
Do you mean no good answer far as you are concerned, or no good answer you can understand or perhaps no good answer because the question is not right to begin with!
Again, I focus my attention on the topic of the thread, and in the case of what is right or wrong about the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, I express my opinion. I've told you before and I tell you again, if you want to know my views about Saudi Arabia, start a thread about Saudi Arabia. You want to know my views about Iran, Iraq, North Korea or Syria, start a thread about any those countries! Start a thread about Trump, and what do you expect from me? Do you expect me to go on about other U.S. Presidents? Other heads of states? No. What you call a "laser focus" is what it should be for everyone participating in this forum, on the topic of the thread!
My "laser focus" is as I've explained many times before and yet again in this comment too, regardless the topic, but you are fixated on what you simply DO NOT WANT TO HEAR about THIS topic, Israel. Simple as that. All you want to do is excuse any and all criticism of Israel with all other wrongs being committed around the world. You are like the mother of a bully at school who causes all kinds of problems, and I'm like the principal of the school who has to tell the mother of the bully that her son is a problem, a big problem. I don't want ANY problems, and no matter there are other bullies in the school. This bully is the subject of my focus for now. The mother however can see none of it! Her son Billy Bob is nothing but her big beautiful baby boy and anyone who has the audacity to suggest otherwise is simply to be dismissed out of hand. Fact remains, however, Billy Bob will be expelled if he doesn't change his ways...
No matter how many times I explain my positive relations with some Jewish people I know, no matter how many times I quote Bernie Sanders, no matter all I have explained and/or could explain along those lines too, you will insist on suggesting antisemitism regardless, and in this respect you are shameless beyond words. Always have been and apparently always will be.
If or when you should happen to choose stepping away from all that sort of nonsense and actually take on my invitation to focus on the facts instead; again, simply choose ANY U.N. resolution critical of Israel. Explain why it is unjustified and in so doing you just might find yourself needing to apply better reasoning than perhaps you are able. However, if you really want to prove antisemitism with respect to all the U.N. resolutions, all you need to do is find a resolution that is entirely unjustified. Why are you not able to do that I wonder.
That's the sort of question, related to the actual facts of these matters, that I keep asking without answer...
Last edited by LearnMe; 04-27-2019 at 10:47 AM..
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