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Why are the Jews the only people who need the support of others to some kind of rights to their state? Is it because they took something that did not belong to them?
Who did it belong to? They ruled the area first as a nation-state during the era prior to 586 BCE and intermittently since. They have always been a majority in Jerusalem. A conquering empire, the Ottomans, broke up. They purchased much of the land, fair and square. What more do you want? The Jews annihilated?
You can go roundy-round with that argument all day but generally speaking, showing up and declaring eminent domain over a piece of property because your ancestors happened to live there 2000 years ago is shaky footing to begin with. As you say, Jews lived in the region anyway for much of modern history, and somehow managed to live along side everybody else. But of course in 1948 something changed. (actually well prior to that)
Who did it belong to? They ruled the area first as a nation-state during the era prior to 586 BCE and intermittently since. They have always been a majority in Jerusalem. A conquering empire, the Ottomans, broke up. They purchased much of the land, fair and square. What more do you want? The Jews annihilated?
Hmm, in essence, you are suggesting to return all North America to native Indians. After all, they lived here for over 10,000 years. And they don't have their own state right now. Absolutely same logic. So, if you support giving land to Israel, then you should support giving North America back to natives. Unless, of course, you live by double standards.
Feel free to suggest that in Congress - in the same package with "aid" for Israel.
Are you saying that Israel is on a moral level of those nations?
What do you have against India?
Besides, Israel doesn't officially have nuclear weapons. That is the reason they are exempt. Officially, there is nothing to inspect. That, and the fact that they never signed the NPT.
And I don’t blame them for not signing the NPT. With the way the UN singles them out over every other country, I wouldn’t expect them to let the UN dictate matters of their national security.
Hmm, in essence, you are suggesting to return all North America to native Indians. After all, they lived here for over 10,000 years. And they don't have their own state right now. Absolutely same logic. So, if you support giving land to Israel, then you should support giving North America back to natives. Unless, of course, you live by double standards.
Feel free to suggest that in Congress - in the same package with "aid" for Israel.
This argument never works for me. Israel already has the land, just like we already have this land. Seeing as how you don’t support giving North America back to the natives, why would you support Israel giving the land back to the Palestinians? Assuming it even belonged to them in the first place.
Anyone who can't see how Israel plays the victim card at the drop of a hat is willfully blind. Israel loves US dollars flowing into their coffers and they love US made weapons, much of which they pay not a penny for. They have a few missions in regard to the USA.
1. Get as much cash from us as they can
2. Guilt us into not holding them to the same accountability that we would anyone else.
3. What we don't give, they will steal.
4. Sell what they can for a good profit. That includes to our enemies. We have caught them more than a few times already.
Israel supports the USA only if and when it is to their advantage to do so. Israel is no one's friend. They are like a stray dog. Everyones pal but nobody's friend.
The USA would do well to distance ourselves from that very fickle, back stabbing, friend.
This argument never works for me. Israel already has the land, just like we already have this land. Seeing as how you don’t support giving North America back to the natives, why would you support Israel giving the land back to the Palestinians? Assuming it even belonged to them in the first place.
You see, US does not claim that it has any "divine" or "historical" right for this land. The land is conquered - brutally, cynically, cruelly, but openly. "The right of force".
Same applies to Israel (except it still tries to play a victim card). There is no such BS as "historical" or "divine" rights. There is either country has the force and guts to be there or not.
So, when I see argument "this or that lived there or here for N number of years in Nth century" - nope, this just doesn't fly as it has exactly zero worth, as I demonstrated in my previous post by showing where that logic brings you to.
But it's kind of telling how fast you went from "historical" rights to "they already have the land" line.
You see, US does not claim that it has any "divine" or "historical" right for this land. The land is conquered - brutally, cynically, cruelly, but openly. "The right of force".
Same applies to Israel (except it still tries to play a victim card). There is no such BS as "historical" or "divine" rights. There is either country has the force and guts to be there or not.
So, when I see argument "this or that lived there or here for N number of years in Nth century" - nope, this just doesn't fly as it has exactly zero worth, as I demonstrated in my previous post by showing where that logic brings you to.
But it's kind of telling how fast you went from "historical" rights to "they already have the land" line.
Wait, when did I do that?
I don’t really care about who lived there 2000 years ago. And I don’t care who lived there 75 years ago. Israel is the country that is there now, and Israel has the “right of force” as you put it. They have been able to successfully defend the land on multiple occasions, so it is theirs until someone can take it away from them. But as I pointed out, that window is gone, because in the age of nuclear weapons, that is extremely unlikely.
Sh.t, sorry, I keep confusing who posted what. You didn't, it was "jbgusa".
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnesthesiaMD
I don’t really care about who lived there 2000 years ago. And I don’t care who lived there 75 years ago. Israel is the country that is there now, and Israel has the “right of force” as you put it. They have been able to successfully defend the land on multiple occasions, so it is theirs until someone can take it away from them.
Well, it was done with a huge help of USA, so I'm not sure in this particular case if it was a real "right of force" (of Israel). I'd say Israel exists only because of US.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnesthesiaMD
But as I pointed out, that window is gone, because in the age of nuclear weapons, that is extremely unlikely
Never say never. Soviet Union had all kinds of nuclear weapons, but it didn't help. There are so many ways to destroy country other than direct war, and every day someone invents a new one.
Sh.t, sorry, I keep confusing who posted what. You didn't, it was "jbgusa".
Well, it was done with a huge help of USA, so I'm not sure in this particular case if it was a real "right of force" (of Israel). I'd say Israel exists only because of US.
Never say never. Soviet Union had all kinds of nuclear weapons, but it didn't help. There are so many ways to destroy country other than direct war, and every day someone invents a new one.
Every war we have ever won has been with the help of allies. How do you know our country would exist today without them? Does that nullify our “right of force”?
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