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Old 05-18-2019, 07:02 PM
 
Location: USA
1,599 posts, read 1,432,160 times
Reputation: 1552

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Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
This all gets silly. There is very good evidence we pay too much for medical care. If we go to single payer we should be able to provide better care at a lesser cost. The simplest plan would be to simply collect the cost from every individual after seeing that the corporate payments are converted to individual salary. then we all make a Fica payment funding the medical system. Then we use the medicare system to pay the bills. Overall the cost should go down 10% or more while covering everyone.

We may eventually need universal basic income but not yet. If, as I think likely, we reach the point where we know longer can fully emply our employable base we then resort to basic income. We pay for it by taxes that hit those profiting from the automation. Do not think we should get out front on this one. The system may solve the problem without UBI. But we should consider it if things go the wrong way.

I would think the college thing is a problem created by the government which it should solve. The college costs were contained by the funding available from the students. We chose to change that by providing loans to the students. We knew they likely could not be expected to pay it back under normal terms and conditions so we removed bankruptcy as an out. Simple solution is just put bankruptcy back in.

Costs are driven up by regulation, bureaucratic rules, and involvement by the government as a “solution” is not the answer
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Old 05-18-2019, 08:02 PM
 
Location: SE Asia
16,236 posts, read 5,882,675 times
Reputation: 9117
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
This all gets silly. There is very good evidence we pay too much for medical care. If we go to single payer we should be able to provide better care at a lesser cost. The simplest plan would be to simply collect the cost from every individual after seeing that the corporate payments are converted to individual salary. then we all make a Fica payment funding the medical system. Then we use the medicare system to pay the bills. Overall the cost should go down 10% or more while covering everyone.

We may eventually need universal basic income but not yet. If, as I think likely, we reach the point where we know longer can fully emply our employable base we then resort to basic income. We pay for it by taxes that hit those profiting from the automation. Do not think we should get out front on this one. The system may solve the problem without UBI. But we should consider it if things go the wrong way.

I would think the college thing is a problem created by the government which it should solve. The college costs were contained by the funding available from the students. We chose to change that by providing loans to the students. We knew they likely could not be expected to pay it back under normal terms and conditions so we removed bankruptcy as an out. Simple solution is just put bankruptcy back in.
Well we agree on the bold. WE absolutely pay way too much for health care and it can be done much better and financed through VAT taxes and employment taxes as Australia does it. The Average American would absolutely pay less and for once everyone would have skin in the game, not just the middle and upper class.
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Old 05-18-2019, 08:06 PM
 
56,988 posts, read 35,206,841 times
Reputation: 18824
Farmers voted for Trump and they’re openly asking for and getting billions in “free stuff” for doing so.

Is that who we’re talking about?
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Old 05-19-2019, 12:31 AM
 
6,835 posts, read 2,401,741 times
Reputation: 2727
Quote:
Originally Posted by FireStation46 View Post
Snippets from news articles on what the Democrat candidates for 2020 President will give you for voting for them.

This is a great deal! We need not work anymore. We will have all our money Re forwarded to the Feds to pay for these FREE programs. Who needs money when the government will provide all. Lenin would be proud!

Here is the list of FREEBIES THE Democrats will give us all ( Republicans, Independents, etc. may I assume no one is excluded from the freebies based upon party affiliation?) Just vote for one of the 23 big spenders!

Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., has pledged to make community colleges and four-year public universities free for families earning less than $125,000 per year.


Joe Biden wants to give free health care to illegal aliens but they already receive free health care in the United States to the tune of $18.5 billion per year, according to a report published in Forbes last year.

Sen. Elizabeth Warren, D-Mass., has pledged
free child care for all Americans. According to the Center for American Progress, child care for American infants costs on average nearly $15,000 per year. The financial services firm Moody’s pegs the cost of Warren’s program at $1.7 billion over 10 years.

Warren would take Sanders' plan a step further. In addition to free public college, she would give each of the 42 million Americans currently paying off their student loans up to $50,000. Warren herself estimates that plan would cost an additional $1.25 trillion over 10 years.

Warren promised to help pay off Americans’ mortgages with “a substantial grant they can put towards a down payment on a home anywhere in the country,” as Warren explains on her campaign website.

Sen. Kamala Harris, D-Calif., Sen. Cory Booker, D-N.J., and Kirsten Gillibrand, D-N.Y., have all co-sponsored the “Debt-Free College Act,” estimated to cost $95.4 billion per year.

For those recent grads “unable or unwilling to work,” a universal basic income would replenish their bank accounts each month. Most 2020 Democrats have endorsed this income entitlement through the Green New Deal, estimated to cost $93 trillion over 10 years.


Reparations for the great-great-great-great grandchildren of black slaves. So far that plan has earned the endorsements of candidates Booker, Gillibrand, and Harris, as well as South Bend Mayor Pete Buttigieg, former HUD Secretary Julian Castro, former Rep. John Delaney, D-Md., former Colorado Gov. John Hickenlooper, and Rep. Tulsi Gabbard, D-Hawaii.


Every single Democratic presidential candidate has endorsed a national medical entitlement tending toward single-payer, socialized medicine with estimates that such a program would cost $3.3 trillion per year, coincidentally the entire sum that the federal government collected through taxes in 2017.

So, do the Math. The Feds collect $3.3 TRILLION A YEAR IN TAXES just enough for national medical entitlement.

Where will the additional money come to pay for all the other FREE gifts?


Sell the Armed Forces, their equipment and and cash in reserves? Sell NASA? Sell the National Parks? End Pensions, Social Security, SDI etc.?

Sell everything!?


New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio opened his announcement by declaring, “There’s plenty of money in this country. It’s just in the wrong hands”.


Comrade Democrats will do it all by taking all your money away.

Don't forget to vote to get your free stuff!
I wonder if Warren has promised to pay for the Cherokee children.
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Old 05-19-2019, 05:53 AM
 
Location: Pennsylvania
31,340 posts, read 14,270,262 times
Reputation: 27863
Quote:
Originally Posted by ditchlights View Post
You are lost, and will be disappointed again in 2020.
"Disappointed" would be a mature, adult reaction to Hillary losing. You're over it in 2 days and you get back to the business of living your life.

"Two and a half year temper tantrum", complete with feet stomping, crying, "he's not my president", complaining that the system is unfair, and trying to change the rules -- oh, and using a fake collusion hoax to try to remove the winning president.... that would be a more accurate description of how the democrats, led by Hillary Clinton, have acted.
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Old 05-19-2019, 06:10 AM
 
Location: Ft. Myers
19,719 posts, read 16,846,967 times
Reputation: 41863
Quote:
Originally Posted by trlhiker View Post
I will rather vote for a Dem who is promising free stuff than the current moron who has no f'in clue what the hell he is doing, lies every single day, and has divided this country like no other and doesn't care.

And who, worst of all, lies to his very own base of supporters. Big beautiful wall, big beautiful healthcare when we repeal Obamacare, tariffs will build American companies, gonna make America great again.

All are buzz terms that had one purpose, to con people who were ripe for the picking. Sadly, a lot of them still haven't awakened to that fact.
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Old 05-19-2019, 06:53 AM
 
Location: Austin
15,637 posts, read 10,393,078 times
Reputation: 19541
the democrats, the far left, the press, the educators have successfully made capitalism a four letter word. capitalism, economic freedom, is what has made America's citizens economically mobile, innovative, and wealthy relative to the rest of the world. Capitalism has raised the standard of living in all countries where it has flourished.

the left prefers government, a few individuals at the top, distribute wealth. the young, under 35, are too uneducated to know the history of socialism/communism and the corruption and poverty it reaps. They think government/socialism/communism is more benevolent/fair than capitalism, per all the polls I've read recently. due to that profound ignorance, I think socialism will become the norm in the US within a generation, two at the most.
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Old 05-19-2019, 07:07 AM
 
8,104 posts, read 3,961,090 times
Reputation: 3070
Quote:
Originally Posted by FireStation46 View Post
True.

The very wealthy have options to up and leave the USA. Who will the Dems find to take the the money from then?
Doubtful.
Most have already relocated if there is a monetary incentive do so.
The ones left have their business and customers here in this country.

How does McDonalds relocate their building to China while having American Customers go through the drive thru?
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Old 05-19-2019, 07:13 AM
 
8,104 posts, read 3,961,090 times
Reputation: 3070
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
This all gets silly. There is very good evidence we pay too much for medical care. If we go to single payer we should be able to provide better care at a lesser cost. The simplest plan would be to simply collect the cost from every individual after seeing that the corporate payments are converted to individual salary. then we all make a Fica payment funding the medical system. Then we use the medicare system to pay the bills. Overall the cost should go down 10% or more while covering everyone.

We may eventually need universal basic income but not yet. If, as I think likely, we reach the point where we know longer can fully emply our employable base we then resort to basic income. We pay for it by taxes that hit those profiting from the automation. Do not think we should get out front on this one. The system may solve the problem without UBI. But we should consider it if things go the wrong way.

I would think the college thing is a problem created by the government which it should solve. The college costs were contained by the funding available from the students. We chose to change that by providing loans to the students. We knew they likely could not be expected to pay it back under normal terms and conditions so we removed bankruptcy as an out. Simple solution is just put bankruptcy back in.
Yea.
You put the bankruptcy option back in and the lenders will have skin in the game and will not be so quick to hand out loans to anyone who can fog a mirror.

The lenders as it stands are riding a guaranteed gravy train.
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Old 05-19-2019, 07:16 AM
 
8,104 posts, read 3,961,090 times
Reputation: 3070
Quote:
Originally Posted by FireStation46 View Post
Costs are driven up by regulation, bureaucratic rules, and involvement by the government as a “solution” is not the answer
And yet billions of dollars are spent by big business every year looking to the government for solutions.
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