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Some people think "Lord of the Flies" is a good way to run a society/country.
As for the gun to head analogy, I'd like to know how the corporations (such as Amazon) removed the gun(s) to their heads, because they are paying zero taxes.
Taxes are for the common man, not the .1%. Buying a congressman is one of the best investments out there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest
If only Ben Franklin spoke for all of us.
I never consented to any constitution.
Natural law is just a man made construct. Not sure there is anywhere free of any government that does not involve militias toting AK47s.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lat 32
Every man has a right to 100% of their own labor. Anything less that is taken involuntarily is just another form of slavery.
I have no problem with income taxes as long as they are voluntary, so I'm pro-choice. I believe in giving people the choice of having control over their own wallets so for me, keep your hands out of my pocket if I don't want you there.
Everyone has to use State-sanctioned money or they'll be caged/killed. You'll have to try again.
As I've mentioned numerous times on this board I have a buddy from college who is down to property taxes as his lone interaction with the State. He simply can't find a patch of non-privatized land for use and settle down on it. Well, he could but that's "illegal" and I'll get to that down below. The State has decreed that all land belongs to it and then you must lease it. YOU OWN NOTHING.
I've also mentioned how people in his area, fellow anarchists, years ago were living in the mountains and not paying property taxes because the State didn't know of their presence. They go by natural law meaning that the only way to properly own land or resources is to homestead or mix your labor with it in some form from its natural condition. Interestingly enough, my buddy said they never had any problems that he knows of before the government found about the folks living up there despite the fact that nobody had stamped papers from the State decreeing who owned what.
Well, that party ended when they busted one of the anarchists walking in town with drugs on him. Oh those dangerous drugs the statists must protect all of us from!
Anyway, I assume he had priors because he was looking at a long stay in Sammy's cage so he flipped on the anarchists living up there (this is Vermont btw and I think the gestapo was getting wise to the activities in the mountains at that point from what my friend tells me).
So how does one secure the land and pay the property taxes when Sammy's money is as good as toilet paper in their locale?
Well, they either have to involuntarily associate with someone who will pay them "legally" to attain Sammy's tribute in his currency of choice or they can involuntarily associate with someone who will pay them "illegally" (under the table).
So now the plot thickens. You can't homestead unused land because Sammy wants his tribute... if he finds out about it. You'll be caged and possibly killed if you don't yield to his demands. Secondly, he wants the tribute in his chosen currency. Lastly, the only way to attain the currency is to contribute to the State in the form of taxation or become a "criminal" yourself by working under the table.
My friend chose the latter. Actually his wife did. She decided to become an outlaw and get Sammy's currency for tribute by babysitting under the table. Call her Charles Manson 2.0. What a threat to "civilization"!
He told me they talked about it for a long time but the thought of directly contributing more to Sammy's coffers to kill babies in Yemen or imprison men/women for something like prostitution was too much for them to bear. It's a dilemma all us anarchists face because Sammy's stalking is so intense association is inevitable. We are the host and he is the parasite.
Does he feel completely "clean"? Of course not. In fact, being down to property taxes as his lone association with his obsessed stalker kind of drives him even crazier than if he was a full-fledged statist saluting the flag, celebrating cops, and voting like you folks do.
See, that's the issue here: the onus is on you guys to leave us alone...not the other way around. We don't initiate the association and we certainly don't initiate the force as that would be a violation of the non-aggression principle. It's you guys who can't keep your hands to yourselves. Your noses out of our business.
I mean...you mention the old hermit being in poor health like it's the right of the State to keep him alive. Even the responsibility of the State. Why? Do you own you or does a politician in a suit downtown own you to make that call? Sadly, you folks have chosen the latter. If it had no impact on me I would say enjoy your shackles and be on my way. But you insist on finding me. You found me on that island off the coast of Japan in the form of the old hermit. You found me in the jungles of Pol Pot's Cambodia when I simply wanted to farm the land my family had been on for centuries. You found me at Bikini Atoll post WWII when you removed me from my home to use it for nuclear testing. You found me in St. Louis in the 1960s when you sprayed biological agents in the air over poor black neighborhoods to see the impact.
Christ, if a restraining order wasn't a statist apparatus in itself I'd think about going downtown and getting one filed against Sammy himself. He'd break it anyway. Always does. That damn social contract you folks got us in is so broad and vague nobody is safe. History shows it...even if you have to dig a little deeper than what is learned in the government indoctrination centers.
Perhaps you didn't notice that I said the hermit should have been left alone, even if he was in poor health.
It's all fine and well to be exorcised about your default subjection to the state. What do you intend to do about it, considering that the vast majority of people/sheeple are apparently okay with it?
Every man has a right to 100% of their own labor. Anything less that is taken involuntarily is just another form of slavery.
I have no problem with income taxes as long as they are voluntary, so I'm pro-choice. I believe in giving people the choice of having control over their own wallets so for me, keep your hands out of my pocket if I don't want you there.
Yea, no they dont.
Yea, no it is not.
And this right here sums up the entire thread, going back to No_Recess correctly pointing out that there is no middle ground between belief in the almighty state and the belief in the sovereignty of natural individual rights.
Clearly, ottomobeale is a believer in the almighty state, and is pretty rigid on that stance. No, you do not own 100% of your own labor, which means you do not own 100% of you. The almighty state owns a chunk because you were born on their geography and haven't fled, thus implicitly consenting to your quasi-slave status. The bully status quo is right and proper, according to such folks. Props to them for being so honest and direct.
Just as clearly, folks like me, No_Recess, Frank, T0103E et al, believe in the other of the absolutely binary choices on the State, which is to say we deny its legitimacy 100%, that no collective of individuals can possess more powers/rights than the individual themselves, and that every individual owns themselves 100% and the fruits of their own labor 100%. We deny the bully status quo completely.
And to echo No_Recess - there is no middle ground. You cannot sorta believe in either direction. If you find even the smallest bit of slavery (which is EXACTLY what taxpayers are - quasi-slaves as Douglass described) acceptable, then you find slavery acceptable, period. You cannot be a little bit pregnant, and you cannot be a little bit enslaved. You are, or you are not.
The "grey area" is simply those folks suffering cognitive dissonance attempting to soothe discomfort. There is no grey area. There is Stockholm Syndrome rationalization to make one's predicament seem less involuntary and more participatory. Think of those grey areas as fairy tales told by the house slaves to the field slaves to keep them from revolting and angering Massah. The simple fact is, we are born into bondage same as any infant born to slaves living on a colonial plantation. How the plantation master saw that new infant is exactly the same as how the state sees us. We are its property, it owns whatever portion of all our future labors it determines fair according to its needs and wants, and we have three choices - do as master says, disobey and get the whip, or flee the plantation and hope we don't end up on an even crueler plantation.
In a way, I admire those who cannot or will not see. You can go through life as quasi-slave and it doesn't really bug you. For folks like me, it's a splinter in your brain that you just can't get out.
Some people think "Lord of the Flies" is a good way to run a society/country.
As for the gun to head analogy, I'd like to know how the corporations (such as Amazon) removed the gun(s) to their heads, because they are paying zero taxes.
They have armies of accountants and legions of lawyers.
Perhaps you didn't notice that I said the hermit should have been left alone, even if he was in poor health.
It's all fine and well to be exorcised about your default subjection to the state. What do you intend to do about it, considering that the vast majority of people/sheeple are apparently okay with it?
Society has gotten so used to bending over and having the government rob them blind that nothing will ever change. Taxes will just go higher and higher and higher until the system collapses.
Back then people revolted...now people stand down.
And so the thread ends up with the anarchists stroking each others' egos while everybody else realizes they've been wasting their time.
Yes because the love it or leave it solution is so valid.
Yes anyone who questions government wasting tax dollars is an anarchist. Any one who feels like the IRS is over the top to powerful is an anarchist.
I know you already told me. If I dont like it I am expected to just leave. Forget that I served my country. Forget that I have paid taxes since I was 13. Forget that I have never committed a crime.
I dont like the gun to our head approach so I should just get the F out. Got it.
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