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If that’s what you got from my last post then yeah you don’t get it.
Sorry but there's only two arguments to be made here: tell people to "live within their means" and watch the US economy crater, or put the blame on wages not keeping up with the CoL. If you don't understand that, then you don't belong in this conversation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by J746NEW
Yep
It is a systemic problem.
If everyone lived within their means then we would go into a recession.
The politicians would shout for everyone to get out there and spend.
Wages have to go up or COL has to come down but wall street would not like either option.
I don't know if we can force CoL to come down, but we can definitely put pressure for wages to go up if half the country didn't obstruct efforts to get people paid.
It's all well and good to shame these people for their decision making, but they're the norm and they've always been the norm. Most people are making some kind of "bad" financial decision. The difference between now and the last few generations is that wages could cover people's inefficiencies.
Normal sucks. The difference between now and “back then” has less to do with wages than it does with spending habits.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieB.Good
Now you have most people living check to check, to the point that half of Americans couldn't cover a $1000 out of pocket expense. And our entire economy is based on those inefficiency. Where do you think the economy would be if most Americans put 10% of their paycheck in savings, 15% towards retirement? If they didn't have kids until they were able to put 20% down on a house in the suburbs? If Americans spread out into the sticks bc they shouldn't spend more 20% on housing? As a country, we'd be f***ed.
Why are they living check to check? Because they spend money they shouldn’t spend on things they don’t need. Anyone who takes a good look at their budget can find spending which is unnecessary.
What would happen to the American economy in your scenario? It would stabilize and we would stop seeing idiotic threads blaming “the system” for the behavior of people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieB.Good
The issue isn't American consumers/consumerism. The issue is wages and cost of living squeezing Americans on both sides.
No, the issue actually is consumerism. If the issue were wages and cost of living nobody would ever be able to become wealthy on their own while working a middle class job.
Normal sucks. The difference between now and “back then” has less to do with wages than it does with spending habits.
Why are they living check to check? Because they spend money they shouldn’t spend on things they don’t need. Anyone who takes a good look at their budget can find spending which is unnecessary.
What would happen to the American economy in your scenario? It would stabilize and we would stop seeing idiotic threads blaming “the system” for the behavior of people.
No, the issue actually is consumerism. If the issue were wages and cost of living nobody would ever be able to become wealthy on their own while working a middle class job.
There is no difference between people in the 60s vs people today. None. They just had fewer things to spread their money around on. They didn't grow up financially literate. They didn't grow up with books and blogs on living within your means. They had all the same bad spending habits as Americans do today, they were just able to cover it.
Yeah the US economy would "stabilize" and it would end up looking like one of those Eastern European economies that their people keep running from. After years of recession, and unemployment in high teens - low 20s, we can get excited about GDP growing @ >1%.
That's a great future for America. All so that you can tell people to stop buying iPhones.
There is no difference between people in the 60s vs people today. None. They just had fewer things to spread their money around on. They didn't grow up financially literate. They didn't grow up with books and blogs on living within your means. They had all the same bad spending habits as Americans do today, they were just able to cover it.
There is a huge difference between consumer behavior in the 1960s and consumer behavior today. Credit was much more difficult to obtain. Common belief in the 1960s was that credit cards were for the rich, not for the everyday individual. Women were nearly unable to obtain a credit card in their own name, and most “credit cards” were actually charge cards that you had to pay off at the end of the billing cycle. There was no balance to carry over.
Also, financial literacy was far more heavily emphasized in the 1960s. Schools actually had courses that taught you the basics of running a household such as budgeting and balancing a checkbook.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieB.Good
Yeah the US economy would "stabilize" and it would end up looking like one of those Eastern European economies that their people keep running from. After years of recession, and unemployment in high teens - low 20s, we can get excited about GDP growing @ >1%.
That's a great future for America. All so that you can tell people to stop buying iPhones.
Your arguments are inconsistent. You blame the economy for people’s behavior, but are unwilling to discourage people from engaging in poor spending habits because it might screw up the economy that you blame.
Edit to add: I don’t care if people want to spend $1000 on a phone that functions exactly like a $200 phone. Their stupidity is not my problem. What I care about is them blaming “the system” for their bad decisions. Simple common sense should come into play, but we’ve eliminated common sense along with financial literacy.
There is a huge difference between consumer behavior in the 1960s and consumer behavior today. Credit was much more difficult to obtain. Common belief in the 1960s was that credit cards were for the rich, not for the everyday individual. Women were nearly unable to obtain a credit card in their own name, and most “credit cards” were actually charge cards that you had to pay off at the end of the billing cycle. There was no balance to carry over.
Also, financial literacy was far more heavily emphasized in the 1960s. Schools actually had courses that taught you the basics of running a household such as budgeting and balancing a checkbook.
Your arguments are inconsistent. You blame the economy for people’s behavior, but are unwilling to discourage people from engaging in poor spending habits because it might screw up the economy that you blame.
Edit to add: I don’t care if people want to spend $1000 on a phone that functions exactly like a $200 phone. Their stupidity is not my problem. What I care about is them blaming “the system” for their bad decisions. Simple common sense should come into play, but we’ve eliminated common sense along with financial literacy.
I agree with this. CC's were for the rich. Us peons used layaway at the stores or saved up cash to buy outright.
The only "loans" one took out was for a car or a house and that was after you had saved for a good chunk of money as a deposit.
There is a huge difference between consumer behavior in the 1960s and consumer behavior today. Credit was much more difficult to obtain. Common belief in the 1960s was that credit cards were for the rich, not for the everyday individual. Women were nearly unable to obtain a credit card in their own name, and most “credit cards” were actually charge cards that you had to pay off at the end of the billing cycle. There was no balance to carry over.
Also, financial literacy was far more heavily emphasized in the 1960s. Schools actually had courses that taught you the basics of running a household such as budgeting and balancing a checkbook.
Your arguments are inconsistent. You blame the economy for people’s behavior, but are unwilling to discourage people from engaging in poor spending habits because it might screw up the economy that you blame.
People not having access to credit does not make them financially smarter. It makes them people who don't have access to credit. People bounced checks and delayed paying their utilities then just like people overdraft and pay their cell phone bills after payday.
Just bc you can't keep up with the conversation, don't try to turn it on me and say my argument is inconsistent. My argument was and is that you can't back "living within your means" without also backing the US economy crashing. Or economy is based on people spending money. If people stop spending money, our economy crashes.
There is no difference between people in the 60s vs people today. None. They just had fewer things to spread their money around on. They didn't grow up financially literate. They didn't grow up with books and blogs on living within your means. They had all the same bad spending habits as Americans do today, they were just able to cover it.
Yeah the US economy would "stabilize" and it would end up looking like one of those Eastern European economies that their people keep running from. After years of recession, and unemployment in high teens - low 20s, we can get excited about GDP growing @ >1%.
That's a great future for America. All so that you can tell people to stop buying iPhones.
Oh they did grow up more financially literate than today's generation.
There wasn't "easy credit" as there is today.
Savings accounts/Christmas club accounts were where you saved your money until you could afford to buy something and most businesses were "cash only" sales. If you wanted something but didn't have the money you did layaway where they held it in the back and you didn't get it until you had your bill paid off.
You're probably a young poster if you think consumers "were always like this".
Not anymore. Given that there aren’t any pay phones and few households have a landline, just simply getting in touch with a team member requires a cell phone. If they’re meeting a client and are lost or running late, how do they reach said client to let them know? Shared online calendars, task lists, project management, navigation tools, texts, photo sharing, and access to manuals, troubleshooting forums, and a flashlight. Did I mention I can get hold of them? Anyone’s standard phone plan and basic smartphone gives access to all these tools, and more of course, and they aren’t luxuries. You won’t even get a job delivering pizza without them.
Again, it is up to the EMPLOYER to provide the phone if it is necessary to the job, not expect an employee to use their own personal phones. I worked for a steel company for 16 years - the outside salesmen and delivery fleet drivers all carried cell phones when they were on the road. The COMPANY provided and paid for them, and also owned, insured and maintained the cars for the outside salesmen to use when they visited customers.
Oh they did grow up more financially literate than today's generation.
There wasn't "easy credit" as there is today.
Savings accounts/Christmas club accounts were where you saved your money until you could afford to buy something and most businesses were "cash only" sales. If you wanted something but didn't have the money you did layaway where they held it in the back and you didn't get it until you had your bill paid off.
You're probably a young poster if you think consumers "were always like this".
Why did we have to create social security if older generations were more financially literate?
Why did so many boomers retire with practically nothing saved for retirement? And the ones who did save, ended up with balances that would barely cover their retirement years?
Older generations were not any more financially literate than people today.
I'm young enough to see that if you consider the generation of time shares and underfunded retirement plans to be financially savvy, then you would be in the same boat today as most Americans.
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