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I have to wonder what the false positive rate is for this. By that I mean for how many might make these king of signs that they might be dangerous, how many actually do anything. I have a feeling it's going to be pretty high, one in 10,000, one in 100,000. How good an indicator does it have to be before it's worth making it actionable?
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrowGirl
One thing we certainly need to improve on it recognizing and appropriately acting on warning signs. I don't know much about the Dayton suspect, but from what you note above it sounds reminiscent of the Parkland suspect, among others. The devil is certainly in the details though, since not everyone who makes treats follows through on them. It certainly seems in many of these cases there were warning signs to be seen.
The thing is, I don’t think many of these shooters perceive their victims as innocents. And they don’t think they have issues. The problem is other people or what those people represent to the shooters.
There are a few posters on this forum.....
One in particular posted an intent to be a part of an armed revolution in anticipation of Hillary being elected.
People say and post a lot of crap and most don’t go on to engage in mass shootings.
8 CHAN ( foreign - owned) is an incubator of hate. Any hater can find validation and encouragement, there.
Good to hear its private web provider shut it down. Will 8 CHAN find another provider?
Who knows.
And I agree - and will take it further - I don't think mass murderers even consider their victims to be human. They lack empathy.
I think that people should be held legally responsible for what they say in person or online.
But it is ILLEGAL FOR HIM TO BE IN POSSESSION OF FIREARMS and I presented strong evidence that he was in possession of firearms. Nada. Nothing.
So I went out and spent thousands of dollars on a security system, and got a license to carry, and bought a handgun, and took lessons, and bought a membership to a shooting range so I can go practice, and now I can MAYBE protect myself, or maybe not. But I live about a five hour drive from him, so he may just get lazy and go shoot someone else.
Supposedly the Dayton killer had disturbing entries in his diary, so a few things.
First, when do we start violating the privacy of anyone's diary?
Secondly, how do we interpret if they write in code or abstract (as I often do). Abstract such as like the ST:TNG episode "Darmok" in that what is written uses analogy and references, but unless you know that background, it can be meaningless.
Secondly, part B: is writing as described above a warning sign? Me, I write in abstract for two main reasons. First of all, I am concerned about my volumes falling into unenlightened hands, discovering my secrets, my weaknesses. I have too much of a life history of being bullied, being picked on as the goody two shoes not to deny that. Is it likely today? Work competitors, those who might want to take me out of power, and lovers....at least.
Secondly, writing in abstract helps me to dream, to live fantasy lives here or there. To be those I desire to be but can only be on the fantasy plane, not on the reality one.
Just as it might be for me, so might another see the world like that. Just because something is hidden does not necessarily mean it is bad.....so how do we decide?
Third, since diary writing is used by so many as a healthy expression, when can we tell what is good and what is bad? Robert Block wrote, for publication, some rather horrifying stuff and it might have been a release for him (hard to argue about writings == $$$) but I hardly think we would say that a lock up should have been used.
Supposedly the Dayton killer had disturbing entries in his diary, so a few things.
First, when do we start violating the privacy of anyone's diary?
Secondly, how do we interpret if they write in code or abstract (as I often do). Abstract such as like the ST:TNG episode "Darmok" in that what is written uses analogy and references, but unless you know that background, it can be meaningless.
Secondly, part B: is writing as described above a warning sign? Me, I write in abstract for two main reasons. First of all, I am concerned about my volumes falling into unenlightened hands, discovering my secrets, my weaknesses. I have too much of a life history of being bullied, being picked on as the goody two shoes not to deny that. Is it likely today? Work competitors, those who might want to take me out of power, and lovers....at least.
Secondly, writing in abstract helps me to dream, to live fantasy lives here or there. To be those I desire to be but can only be on the fantasy plane, not on the reality one.
Just as it might be for me, so might another see the world like that. Just because something is hidden does not necessarily mean it is bad.....so how do we decide?
Third, since diary writing is used by so many as a healthy expression, when can we tell what is good and what is bad? Robert Block wrote, for publication, some rather horrifying stuff and it might have been a release for him (hard to argue about writings == $$$) but I hardly think we would say that a lock up should have been used.
Finally, is writing A LOT a "red flag"?
Good question.
My state, CO, recently passed a "red flag" law.
Several LEOs are refusing to adhere to it and there's a recall petition going around against the governor who signed it into law.
As several posters have noted, they have seen something and said something to no avail.
So, what is the answer?
It now has proven that the Ohio shooter was suspended from school for having a hit list and making other threats when he was 15.
Btw., just for the Trump haters, the guy was 24 when he did this murder act, so when he was 15 that was under Obama! Not that I blame Obama for that. But Trump haters will keep blaming Trump and keep dividing this Country by blaming this President for everything that is and was wrong under Clinton, Bush and Obama!
Clearly mental illness and evil starts at a young age and giving juveniles a pass is and can be dangerous.
Clearly this 15 years old boy grew up with what his plan was at the age of 15.
How many others knew about his plans, aside from his school who acted at the time.
It seems in Ohio, the people were killed by someone who was a walking time bomb.
For all Trump haters, the link comes from your beloved CNN!
Cop here.
Define "checking on"?
I've been dispatched to a lot of "welfare check" calls to check on people because their friends and relatives expressed concerns that they might hurt themselves or others. Besides from asking the welfare check person a few questions, what else am I suppose to do if there is no crime committed?
Do you want to grant the government the ability to detain people or confiscate their firearms without cause simply because their friends/relatives think those people are "unsafe"?
We should do more than "check on them". We need mental hospitals in numbers like we used to have. The mental illness problem has gotten worse as we have fewer places to put problem people. Some people (even children) can't be helped. Many children show very early signs of dangerous mental illness and are incapable of feeling empathy.
I watched a 20/20 or Dateline episode a few years back about "bad seed" children. One family was being terrorized by their 7 year old. They woke up one night to find him standing over their bed with a large kitchen knife. Dangerous psychopaths or sociopaths almost always give signs.
It now has proven that the Ohio shooter was suspended from school for having a hit list and making other threats when he was 15.
Btw., just for the Trump haters, the guy was 24 when he did this murder act, so when he was 15 that was under Obama! Not that I blame Obama for that. But Trump haters will keep blaming Trump and keep dividing this Country by blaming this President for everything that is and was wrong under Clinton, Bush and Obama!
Clearly mental illness and evil starts at a young age and giving juveniles a pass is and can be dangerous.
Clearly this 15 years old boy grew up with what his plan was at the age of 15.
How many others knew about his plans, aside from his school who acted at the time.
It seems in Ohio, the people were killed by someone who was a walking time bomb.
For all Trump haters, the link comes from your beloved CNN!
It is the only smart thing to do......there were warning signs all over for these shooters who were suicidal and full of hate and on meds......people knew ahead of time and said nothing. If we are going to have to mess with folks let's put the potential shooters under the heat lamp and really do a check that's effective otherwise just put a machine gun nest over every mall and school and prepare to blast the next nutball to come down the pike.
"If you see something, say something" DOESN'T WORK across the board, clearly. People reported the Dayton shooter (who was a registered Democrat, but I digress) repeatedly, and have expressed great frustration over this. I myself have reported a seriously mentally ill person who is barred from gun possession under Federal law, when he began exhibiting bizarre behavior, to absolutely no avail.
"See something, say something" isn't a partisan stance. It also doesn't seem to work very well.
Oh you didn't read the original post? But you read mine -- that's odd.
The OP references Trump haters as if they would object to see something say something.
I can only imagine how out of context my comments are if you didn't read the original post...lol.
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