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...by a number of criteria, Scandinavian countries such as Sweden are more free-market, and more capitalist, than say the United States. Sweden...has an extremely efficient free market economy. The state does not own much in the way of productive enterprises or companies. The economy is significantly less regulated than either the US or UK.
'Socialism' can be defined as collective (in practice, government) ownership of the means of production. Sweden clearly doesn't have that. It is best termed a 'social democracy,' which is very different from 'socialism' (whether 'democratic' or otherwise). Venezuela and Cuba are examples of socialism.
There are many aspects of the Swedish economy that might surprise the U.S. far-left. They have school vouchers, unlike the almost fully socialized (gov't run) public school system in the US. They also have health care vouchers, which Speaker Paul Ryan tried to advocate, and for which he was vilified by Democrats. And partially-privatized pensions, a proposal for which W Bush was vilified.
it’s not about squeezing the rich. If we did that with a government of this size, we would lose the rich, we would lose the big companies. We would lose the most important taxpayers...
in the United States, the top 10% of earners paid almost 50% of all income taxes. In Sweden, the top 10% of earners paid just a quarter of total taxes. So, what the “Swedish model” does is it taxes the middle-class and the low-income earners much more heavily than the U.S.
Both AOC and Bernie Sanders are members of 'Democratic Socialists of America,' who are dedicated to actual socialism, not 'social democracy,' again, two very different concepts. When AOC and Bernie cite Sweden as their desired model, they are either being ignorant or mendacious. But that's a matter of speculation. What we do know for sure is that they are WRONG.
STEALTH SOCIALISM is a system in which the government leaves nominal ownership of the means of production in the hands of private individuals but exercises control by means of regulatory legislation and reaps tremendous profit by means of heavy taxation. In effect, stealth socialism is simply a more subtle form of government ownership than is overt socialism (& communism) with its nationalization of business and industry.
COLLECTIVISM : We steal everything, and hold you obligated to pay us for our magnanimous mismanagement, while demanding your obedience to our dictates.
But at least we have equal oppression for all, justice for none!
PS, please don't tell me that the difference between 'democratic socialism' and 'social democracy' is a matter of semantics. 'Semantics' as used in common parlance refers to inconsequential differences of language. The differences between 'democratic socialism' and 'social democracy' are hardly inconsequential.
The ideas that Sanders proposes are identical to those favored by European Social Democrats.
Because you want to paint government health care in the same breath as gulags and one party rule over the means of production as a means political partisan BS doesn't mean it's actually true.
The ideas that Sanders proposes are identical to those favored by European Social Democrats.
Because you want to paint government health care in the same breath as gulags and one party rule over the means of production as a means political partisan BS doesn't mean it's actually true.
But the terminology he uses is identical to that which was favored by Hugo Chavez, namely 'democratic socialism.' And the organization to which he belongs (or at least used to) advocates full-on socialism, not social democracy.
Which is the true Bernie? His proposals or his language. I suppose no one knows 100% (which in itself should be concerning regarding a major presidential candidate). But I once posed the question to a Bernie supporter who is a knowledgeable poster. His reply: //www.city-data.com/forum/54169100-post9.html
Quote:
His policies are of a social democrat, but deep down he is a socialist.
This isn't me theorizing, this is from his past affiliations and work (he is very old of course) with socialist groups.
He decided around the time he became Mayor to promote social democratic policies to make himself a viable politician, but in terms of end goal he still sees himself as a socialist.
That is why he plays fast and loose with the two terms.
STEALTH SOCIALISM is a system in which the government leaves nominal ownership of the means of production in the hands of private individuals but exercises control by means of regulatory legislation and reaps tremendous profit by means of heavy taxation. In effect, stealth socialism is simply a more subtle form of government ownership than is overt socialism (& communism) with its nationalization of business and industry.
COLLECTIVISM : We steal everything, and hold you obligated to pay us for our magnanimous mismanagement, while demanding your obedience to our dictates.
But at least we have equal oppression for all, justice for none!
Yes, Sweden is socialist.
The definition of socialism is collective ownership of the means of production. Sweden doesn't have that. If we make up our own definitions of words, we can come to any conclusion about anything. But we have destroyed any possibility of rational discourse.
No matter how hard some try to mince words, the fact is that if we spent the percentage of GDP on our OWN PEOPLE as Denmark and Sweden, we'd be "Social Democrats" just like they are.....
Sweden and those countries spend 50% of ALL income For the People.....
The USA spends 27% - and, of course, borrows vast amounts additionally......
That is the proof. If you don't accept that, then the conversation is over. They spend almost double on their "welfare state" - put another way, that would be 4 TRILLION more per year we'd spend on social programs.
Are you ready to do so? Don't worry, if we do so we won't be Socialist so the Right would accept it, right?
Let's be honest for a moment... Bernie Sanders and AOC lack the intellectual capacity to grasp what it is they actually want. They just know if they promise more free crap to the dumbest 35% of society (which they may be a part of) they are guaranteed to get a good chunk of votes in just about any election. The promise of working hard and being rewarded for your efforts is not so attractive to the more worthless members of any society.
They can call this strategy socialism, communism, whatever they want. The name is irrelevant. It's all about making promises they know they can't keep, because there are people too stupid to think in rational terms. They will lap it up time after time, even after promises are broken each and every single time. Yes, there are people this stupid, and their vote is worth the same as yours.
Let's be honest for a moment... Bernie Sanders and AOC lack the intellectual capacity to grasp what it is they actually want....
They can call this strategy socialism, communism, whatever they want. The name is irrelevant....
I find it hard to believe that a guy who is a longtime sitting senator, major presidential candidate, and author of several books is lacking in intellectual capacity. With AOC I'm not sure. She might be lacking, or she might just be crazy like a fox, which I believe is the case with Bernie.
It does in fact matter very much whether he is a 'socialist' or 'social democrat.' If the former, he wants to turn us into Venezuela. If the latter, then Sweden. There's a huge difference between the two.
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