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Old 09-22-2019, 03:56 AM
 
34,279 posts, read 19,375,883 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilot1 View Post
Only the committed Far Leftists believe in the hoax and scam of climate change. 90% of the country sees that it is a scam and doesn't care.
Only those who refuse to face reality believe that 90% don’t care and don’t believe in it.

The US is fairly unique in denying climate change is occurring. And even here 56% think climate change is a problem we need to address now. Your 90% claim is utter nonsense.
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Old 09-22-2019, 04:33 AM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,059,937 times
Reputation: 17865
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
Weird, other countries seem to be able to progress towards this.

Germans for example, they pay about 35 cents per kWh. There is tax included in that used exclusively to to prop up renewable energy poroduction that is about equal to lowest retail here in the US. That renewable capacity can during ideal weather conditions meet all or most of their demand. When its making nothing they are reliant on fossil fuel production, mostly coal generation. Once they have access to gas from Russia they will be able to phase out those coal plants with natural gas ones. Solar and wind will not be replacing them.


However those coal plants represent a significant capital investment and replacing them prematurely will drive up electric rates even further.
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Old 09-22-2019, 04:57 AM
 
34,279 posts, read 19,375,883 times
Reputation: 17261
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
Germans for example, they pay about 35 cents per kWh. There is tax included in that used exclusively to to prop up renewable energy poroduction that is about equal to lowest retail here in the US. That renewable capacity can during ideal weather conditions meet all or most of their demand. When its making nothing they are reliant on fossil fuel production, mostly coal generation. Once they have access to gas from Russia they will be able to phase out those coal plants with natural gas ones. Solar and wind will not be replacing them.


However those coal plants represent a significant capital investment and replacing them prematurely will drive up electric rates even further.
Again, read what I said. Progressing towards.

As for Germany maybe you should realize that the 35 cent price they pay? 21% of that is related to renewables. That’s the tax you mention. But There’s a ton of other taxes in their that make it not a good apples to oranges comparison. It’s like if I used Iceland which has 85% or more of their power come from renewables. It’s true, but not a good comparison. They have some unique advantages that we don’t.

Per generated watt, solar, wind, hydro, etc.....are all cheaper then coal plants.

75% of us coal plants are more expensive to operate, then they would be to replace with renewables.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/energyi.../#5a58c43322d9

I.e...keeping 75% of these coal plants is more expensive. And that numbers going to increase.

And the argument that ideal weather conditions are needed....I expected better from you. You know better. It’s like saying the wind will stop all across the us, while the skies are also all cloudy. It’s a nice sound bite, but unrealistic.

I don’t think 100% renewable is doable, but 70%. Sure. With natural gas power plants as the backstop. Coal lost due to economics, and technology.
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Old 09-22-2019, 05:15 AM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
33,544 posts, read 37,145,710 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilot1 View Post
Only the committed Far Leftists believe in the hoax and scam of climate change. 90% of the country sees that it is a scam and doesn't care.
Bad info there my friend....

A total of 13% of Americans polled in a 23-country survey conducted by the YouGov-Cambridge Globalism Project agreed with the statement that the climate is changing “but human activity is not responsible at all”. A further 5% said the climate was not changing.

Only Saudi Arabia (16%) and Indonesia (18%) had a higher proportion of people doubtful of manmade climate change.

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...rnational-poll
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Old 09-22-2019, 05:25 AM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,059,937 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
Again, read what I said. Progressing towards.

As for Germany maybe you should realize that the 35 cent price they pay? 21% of that is related to renewables.

In addition to that the cost of the power from conventional plants is much higher per kWh. You have a capital investment that is going to return on your investment over 60 or 70 years. The more it runs the more on return, or in this case the less it cost per kWh over it's lifetime. If you are not fully utilizing it the cost per kWh necessarily rises.



You cannot eliminate that capital investment because solar and wind cannot replace that reliable on demand production.



Quote:
Per generated watt, solar, wind, hydro, etc.....are all cheaper then coal plants.

75% of us coal plants are more expensive to operate, then they would be to replace with renewables.
It wouldn't matter if they cost $0, you still need to build the coal, gas or nuclear plants. Nuclear plants are in the same boat as coal, it's not that they can't produce cheap power. It's that they can't do it when the demand for their power becomes intermittent. If there is no demand because of production from wind and solar the cost necessarily rise.



With that said if they are cheaper it's time to remove the subsidies and more importantly the mandates since they are no longer needed.





Quote:
And the argument that ideal weather conditions are needed....I expected better from you. You know better. It’s like saying the wind will stop all across the us, while the skies are also all cloudy.
Huh? It's Mother Nature and she can throw anything at you. You cant predict what is going to happen. You can stack coal to the moon next to a coal plant, gas plants are only limited pipe infrastructure which needs to be exapnded to meet growing needs. In the meantime they they are mking them dual fuel so they can burn diesel during emergency event when the gas infrastructure cannot meet demand.


Quote:

With natural gas power plants as the backstop.
Gas is more suitable for this but that's a pretty expensive backstop whether it's gas, coal or nuclear. You'll be building gas plants to sit there most of the year.
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Old 09-22-2019, 05:28 AM
 
Location: Morrison, CO
34,232 posts, read 18,584,601 times
Reputation: 25806
The Polls said Hillary would be President. Most people don't care about man made climate change. Fact. It's a loser. Like more gun control laws. Get over it.
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Old 09-22-2019, 05:34 AM
 
Location: Montgomery County, PA
16,569 posts, read 15,278,266 times
Reputation: 14591
Quote:
Originally Posted by T-310 View Post
What cost?
Exactly! In a mere 100 years, humans progress surpassed that all of 5000 years of history and this guy worries about the "cost." I am sure after typing those words, he promptly jumps in his car to drive to the airport and fly to LA for a quick business trip.
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Old 09-22-2019, 05:40 AM
 
Location: Elysium
12,387 posts, read 8,155,775 times
Reputation: 9199
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
Weird, other countries seem to be able to progress towards this. Why the assumption we can’t? What nonsense.

Also lots of leftists love nuclear.

As for range on EV cars? The new Tesla model s roadster coming out next year has a 600 mile range. Their v3 chargers can charge this back up insanely fast, with a model 3 going from 0% of charge to 50% in 15 minutes, 90% in 45 minutes. I suspect similar results from the roadster.

Their truck coming in the next couple months will have a 400-500 mile range. Folks need to start looking at what’s going on rather then claiming stuff based on their preconceptions.
Insanely fast? My local shopping mall has about 20 charging stations and the line up of cars waiting reminds me of the odd or even days of the second oil crises in the 70s after the Shah of Iran fell from power. The time needed however made for a hiring boom in parking valets who hopefully can get some charging done before you finish shopping
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Old 09-22-2019, 05:40 AM
 
Location: Morrison, CO
34,232 posts, read 18,584,601 times
Reputation: 25806
We don't need "renewables". We have centuries of fossil fuel. It runs the world.
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Old 09-22-2019, 05:40 AM
 
Location: Montgomery County, PA
16,569 posts, read 15,278,266 times
Reputation: 14591
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freak80 View Post
Yes. Unfortunately, the only technology that can meaningfully reduce carbon dioxide emissions (while keeping the lights on) is nuclear fission. Of course, that has it’s own set of environmental problems and risks. Personally, I think that nuclear power is less risky than raising the earth’s temperature by 3-5C by the end of this century. There’s no reason we’d have to use nuclear power forever; hopefully fusion power will become a reality by the end of the century.
The so called "renewables" need nonrenewable to survive, so how are they renewables. Ethanol comes from corn and corn needs land. Read somewhere that the western US needs to be converted to farmland if it were to generate enough biofuels. Storage needs rare minerals that can only come from the earth. Every day we are reminded that there is only so much oil in the world but never say the same thing about lithium.
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