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In KC men did really well working at: GM, Ford , or Sante Fe. Even a full time janitor could make over $20,000 per year. I worked full time factory jobs during the Summer which payed really well.
I grew up in KC in that era. I remember a friend of one brother taking a summer job at an assembly plant (I think it was General Motors) and earning an eye-watering hourly wage of $17 per hour. This was circa 1982. Minimum wage was then around $3 per hour. But everyone in the plentiful manufacturing jobs was earning way over minimum wage. Minimum wage was strictly for teenagers in fast food.
What has changed is that, excepting the few union shops still around, those high-pay manufacturing jobs are gone. And there has been a "great suppression" where many formerly middle-class service jobs now pay minimum wage or near (janitors are a great example -- they used to be paid according to the corporate pay schedule, now almost all janitors are hired by a service vendor at the lowest possible pay).
On the other extreme, the technical and professional jobs have gotten more lucrative. My father's (STEM with a masters degree) bill rate in 1982 was around $50/ hour. He has long since retired, but an equivalent professional today would bill at $250/ hour.
So the good blue collar job went from $17/ hour then to $15/ hour today (a significant decrease of -3x when factoring inflation)
...and the high-end white collar job went from $50/ hour to $250/ hour today (significantly outpacing inflation by more than 2x)
I never said nobody is struggling anywhere. What I said is that your average American household has one of the highest purchasing power levels in the world even after adjusting for cost of living. Obviously SOME people are struggling by any objective measure. But the reason why MOST people feel like they're struggling is because, ON THE WHOLE, we're unimaginably spoiled and financially undisciplined.
I don't know about you but I'm old enough to remember when a family outing to today's equivalent of, say, Olive Garden or Outback Steakhouse was a rare, maybe once-a-month treat, and a 2,000 sqft house was considered "big." Anyone young enough to dismiss Olive Garden as a low-brow restaurant and a 2,000 sqft house as adequate in a pinch can get off my lawn.
Bingo! When I was a kid, our house was 3 bedrooms, 1 bathroom, and 1300 square feet. We ate dinner at home every night, with a treat going out to Hot Shoppes (equivalent to a Denny's) maybe once a month. The one TV was in the rec room, and we all argued....oops, I mean shared....the TV viewing. The single telephone hung on the wall in the kitchen, and....get this!.....in the early years it was a "party line." We washed the dinner dishes by hand. (And I hepped with the drying!) In the summer, we rented a modest apartment at the beach (which was within driving distance) for one week. THAT was a middle-class life, and NONE of us thought we were struggling. I had decent, if inexpensive, clothes for school....well-balanced dinners....rode my bike outside after school.....and even got to go the beach in the summer.
Today? It's an upscale restaurant at least once a week, a minimum of 2500 square feet house with each kid getting his own bedroom and an extra for guests, everyone has their own iPhone, and TV, and Ipad, and whatever, and a vacation is a ski trip to Vermont or a summer cruise to Alaska. Can't afford that? People then think they're struggling.
Bingo! When I was a kid, our house was 3 bedrooms, 1 bathroom, and 1300 square feet. We ate dinner at home every night, with a treat going out to Hot Shoppes (equivalent to a Denny's) maybe once a month. The one TV was in the rec room, and we all argued....oops, I mean shared....the TV viewing. The single telephone hung on the wall in the kitchen, and....get this!.....in the early years it was a "party line." We washed the dinner dishes by hand. (And I hepped with the drying!) In the summer, we rented a modest apartment at the beach (which was within driving distance) for one week. THAT was a middle-class life, and NONE of us thought we were struggling. I had decent, if inexpensive, clothes for school....well-balanced dinners....rode my bike outside after school.....and even got to go the beach in the summer.
Today? It's an upscale restaurant at least once a week, a minimum of 2500 square feet house with each kid getting his own bedroom and an extra for guests, everyone has their own iPhone, and TV, and Ipad, and whatever, and a vacation is a ski trip to Vermont or a summer cruise to Alaska. Can't afford that? People then think they're struggling.
I could have written this post. We must be in a similar age group.
Our "poor" here in these united states live quite well.
I already posted upthread that yeah, things are getting more expensive but we're also not spending money in the same way we did back in the day.
I remember way back when you had "lay away", that was a Kmart special back then and you actually had to wait to essentially save enough money to get stuff.
The consumerism in this country is sickening to me. Most people just go along with the program without really thinking about how and where their money is going.
Yeah, I know, I sound like my dad......
Last edited by Chowhound; 11-15-2019 at 01:02 PM..
You have claimed in the past to be Libertarian...what now do you claim?
Provide the quote, so we know what you are referring to.
I have taken the "Political Compass" quiz, and it has put me in the Libertarian leaning section, but I do not identify as Libertarian. They want to legalize drugs, they are pro-abortion, pro open borders etc so I have too many disagreements with them.
I listed some of my views and dais I supported Ron Paul and his views. You can base your opinion from that.
I consider Trump to be a complete idiot, and if that makes me "far-left" then that says more about you than me. You are a Trump butt-kisser, and it says nothing about your actual views. I have no clue what your views are and nor do I care. Not sure what you get out of trying to label people, but it must be a big deal for you.
I am independent and a 3rd party voter. Most of my views lean right. Feel free to prove otherwise, since this is some kind of obsession for you.
Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 11-15-2019 at 01:27 PM..
Hard to "boom" when you're constantly in fear of being fired so an incompetent fumbling H1B can take your place.
What has happened to the IT industry is sad. I worked for a company where we trained Indians to take our jobs, and by the time I left 95% of the US workforce had been replaced by Indians. Some were carried out literally kicking and screaming.
I could have written this post. We must be in a similar age group.
Our "poor" here in these united states live quite well.
I already posted upthread that yeah, things are getting more expensive but we're also not spending money in the same way we did back in the day.
I remember way back when you had "lay away", that was a Kmart special back then and you actually had to wait to essentially save enough money to get stuff.
The consumerism in this country is sickening to me. Most people just go along with the program without really thinking about how and where their money is going.
Yeah, I know, I sound like my dad......
Early 60s? (Age, and era.)
Speaking of middle class lifestyles, go back one more generation: While my own parents were actually poor, their cousins were "middle class." They owned their own home, but it was small. (They had it in the family long enough for me to remember.) It was two bedrooms, one bathroom, and the two sisters shared one bedroom; the parents the other. No air-conditioning. No washing machine: they went to the laundromat for the big stuff (like sheets) and washed their clothes by hand in the sink. They hung everything out to dry - even in the winter. The NEVER ate out. If they went to the beach (a short train ride away), they packed their lunch. (The beach restaurants were for the rich people!) They took the bus wherever they needed to go. (No car.) But they were middle class: adequate amount of good food, clean clothes to wear to school, and lived in a decent, albeit tiny, house.
People have just become completely spoiled these days.
To educate people like "Tall Traveler" and " InformedConsent".
I don't doubt some people are struggling. It's because they live beyond their means. They spend more than they earn. Remember the stat I posted? 19% of adults in the US have a negative net worth. They owe more in debt than their assets/possessions are worth including any equity they have in their home.
Provide the quote, so we know what you are referring to.
I have taken the "Political Compass" quiz, and it has put me in the Libertarian leaning section, but I do not identify as Libertarian.
I listed some of my views and dais I supported Ron Paul and his views. You can base your opinion from that.
I consider Trump to be a complete idiot, and if that makes me "far-left" then that says more about you than me. You are a Trump butt-kisser, and it says nothing about your actual views. I have no clue what your views are and nor do I care. Not sure what you get out of trying to label people, but it must be a big deal for you.
I am independent and a 3rd party voter. Most of my views lean right. Feel free to prove otherwise, since this is some kind of obsession for you.
I took that test a few times, it was just on here a little while back. I always score in the lower left quadrant. Center left with a slight libertarian bent.
I don't care for trump, he's that asshat we all knew growing up back in HS and he never grew up. I'll take him over the current crop of Dims that are running. I'm not down with all of the far far leftist policies that I don't think represent the spirit of this country.
Yeah, the repubs are garbage too but whatever, as usual the politicians are doing their own self-interest bidding. It's like picking out what pile of crap stinks less.
I wouldn't say they are living a life of poverty - they all go out to restaurants, go to shows, have late-model cars, even take trips to Cancun and go on cruises. Of course, they will ALSO complain that they can't save anything from their income, but then again....they don't want to give up the restaurants, the shows, the late-model cars, and the cruises.
Life is about choices. Not everyone makes the responsible ones.
I would argue that in a 1st world country a middle class person should be able to afford the above without struggling. Occasionally eating in restaurants and taking an annual vacation in Cancun are not big luxuries. Flight + Hotel to Cancun can be done with $600.
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