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10k health insurance is equivalent to 10% on 100k income, 20k daycare is 20% tax, payroll taxes are taxes, 50k college is equivalent to .. over that many years. I guess I don't even need to count the other things like property taxes, etc.
Unless you make apples to apples your comparisons are worth zilch.
P.s. I don't think many companies give 1-2 years paid leave but some might.
Daycare is NOT 20K - more like 8K/yr and you pay for a few years, not your entire life until you die. Healthcare is more like 3K than 10K and you can choose your doctor. An equivalent college is more like 10K/yr and again paying for a few years, not entire life (if do it right).
BTW - We pay much lower than these numbers for medical for a family of 4 and college with 2 in good schools right now.
Unless you use more realistic equivalents for apples to apples numbers, your comparisons and opinions are worth zilch
Daycare is NOT 20K - more like 8K/yr and you pay for a few years, not your entire life until you die. Healthcare is more like 3K than 10K and you can choose your doctor. An equivalent college is more like 10K/yr and again paying for a few years, not entire life (if do it right).
BTW - We pay much lower than these numbers for medical for a family of 4 and college with 2 in good schools right now.
Unless you use more realistic equivalents for apples to apples numbers, your comparisons and opinions are worth zilch
Well, ok, let's be more specific. I quoted daycare for two kids, and that's about as low as it gets (Texas). 8k/year full time daycare in San Diego? I don't think so.
Certainly, not entire life, but then comes college, then come medical expenses at old age. So, yeah prorated but still all adds up.
3k/year health insurance for a family of 4? Slightly difficult to believe, but possible. Of course the employer(s) pays the rest, so that's just part of your total compensation. So the equivalent tax is total premium/total compensation
Not sure what UC tuition (again assuming you are in California) is nowadays, but yeah it is a good deal, especially considering the schools, compared to almost anything else.
We still haven't discussed property taxes and retirement and what the equivalent percentages are...
Well, ok, let's be more specific. I quoted daycare for two kids, and that's about as low as it gets (Texas). 8k/year full time daycare in San Diego? I don't think so.
Certainly, not entire life, but then comes college, then come medical expenses at old age. So, yeah prorated but still all adds up.
3k/year health insurance for a family of 4? Slightly difficult to believe, but possible. Of course the employer(s) pays the rest, so that's just part of your total compensation. So the equivalent tax is total premium/total compensation
Not sure what UC tuition (again assuming you are in California) is nowadays, but yeah it is a good deal, especially considering the schools, compared to almost anything else.
We still haven't discussed property taxes and retirement and what the equivalent percentages are...
Current day care average in the US is under $8K. We were living in Illinois, Louisiana and Virginia when needed daycare and was under $3K/yr for infant or toddler in those locations - equivalent to $5k/yr today. After school care was provided by the school for small fee in VA & CA so was about $300/yr, in Louisiana it was about $600/yr.
My DW and I are early retirees but our current medical plan is about $2k for the family - less than 1% of our salary when worked. And yes we use it, I was at the doctor yesterday and copay was $40 for a specialist and $10 for x-rays.
Kids are at California State Universities and tuition is about $7K/yr, UC is about $14K/yr but Cal State is closer to Nordic school levels. (UC Berkeley was under $1.5K/yr when I went there)
Employee contribution to retirement in Norway is 7.8% vs 6.2% in US - Norway's full (100%) pension in 2019 is NOK 96,883/yr ($10,600/yr) vs avg of $17,530 in US. Property tax is local in both locations and varies widely - not part of discussion of income.
the very poor are paying taxes of about 50% of what they make between Income and VAT Taxes vs under 10% here, mostly on sales tax.
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Do you have a source for that? How can the very poor be paying about 50% of income? That's pretty much impossible when total taxation is well under 50% of GDP in most European countries.
Current day care average in the US is under $8K. We were living in Illinois, Louisiana and Virginia when needed daycare and was under $3K/yr for infant or toddler in those locations - equivalent to $5k/yr today. After school care was provided by the school for small fee in VA & CA so was about $300/yr, in Louisiana it was about $600/yr.
My DW and I are early retirees but our current medical plan is about $2k for the family - less than 1% of our salary when worked. And yes we use it, I was at the doctor yesterday and copay was $40 for a specialist and $10 for x-rays.
Kids are at California State Universities and tuition is about $7K/yr, UC is about $14K/yr but Cal State is closer to Nordic school levels. (UC Berkeley was under $1.5K/yr when I went there)
Employee contribution to retirement in Norway is 7.8% vs 6.2% in US - Norway's full (100%) pension in 2019 is NOK 96,883/yr ($10,600/yr) vs avg of $17,530 in US. Property tax is local in both locations and varies widely - not part of discussion of income.
Average cost for a full time center based daycare in US is about 12k a year per child, with costs in major metro areas significantly higher. Yes, when they get older after school care is of course less (we pay/paid about $300 per kid per month), but even that is more reasonable only because it is short hours and provided by the school (private after school care is quite more).
Yes, property taxes are different, but the bottom line is generally they are very low in Europe, and very high in US, especially states (like Texas) that fund K12 almost exclusively through that. 2.5% property tax on the market value, for a house that's let's say 3x the income is equivalent to 7.5% tax on the gross.
Tuition in the school I went to has also gone up by a factor of 10.
And so on. Again federal income tax levels here and the much more "inclusive" tax rates in Europe cannot be compared without adjustments.
P.S. Ok, you have a well subsidized insurance, it does not change the fact that the total premium amount is high.
You are missing the point - they force a government controlled system on everyone, there is no ability to chose level of care, schooling or whatever and who gives that service. There is no incentive to be efficient, raise level of care or be cost effective for any of it.
What do you mean by the "good stuff". Even with population of just over one percent of the US, they struggle to provide service and education levels equivalent to those in the US.
In the US, if destitute, you will get medical care at no cost - same as there. Most community colleges are free or very close to free in the US. In Nordic countries, although free, it is not open to everyone, unlike community college here. The homeless rate is about double in Sweden vs the US with much higher percent of chronic homelessness.
These countries providing the "good stuff" is somewhat a myth of the politicians that want control of more off the economy. It is far from perfect and is very expensive system for everyone, not just the "rich".
10k health insurance is equivalent to 10% on 100k income, 20k daycare is 20% tax, payroll taxes are taxes, 50k college is equivalent to .. over that many years. I guess I don't even need to count the other things like property taxes, etc.
Unless you make apples to apples your comparisons are worth zilch.
P.s. I don't think many companies give 1-2 years paid leave but some might.
What’s your point here? You want to force other people to pay for your expenses?
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