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Old 04-12-2020, 11:10 AM
 
Location: USA
5,738 posts, read 5,443,536 times
Reputation: 3669

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American law incentivizes huge companies to take on unsustainable amounts of debt, knowing that they can either make it vanish by filing bankruptcy or send their people to Uncle Sam for a handout. I'm for innovation and risk-taking, but we've been going through this BS every ten years now. Something should change.
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Old 04-12-2020, 11:14 AM
 
34,058 posts, read 17,071,203 times
Reputation: 17212
Quote:
Originally Posted by It'sAutomatic View Post
American law incentivizes huge companies to take on unsustainable amounts of debt, knowing that they can either make it vanish by filing bankruptcy or send their people to Uncle Sam for a handout. I'm for innovation and risk-taking, but we've been going through this BS every ten years now. Something should change.
Government caused the issues of 2020 for business by shutting them down.
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Old 04-12-2020, 11:40 AM
 
Location: Suburb of Chicago
31,848 posts, read 17,610,392 times
Reputation: 29385
If the airlines hadn't spent trillions on buy backs, they wouldn't need to be bailed out.
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Old 04-12-2020, 11:48 AM
 
34,058 posts, read 17,071,203 times
Reputation: 17212
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Originally Posted by MPowering1 View Post
If the airlines hadn't spent trillions on buy backs, they wouldn't need to be bailed out.
Wrong. I'm not a huge fan of buybacks, but big picture gov't changed the planes from 85% full to 4% full, for weeks on end.

How would YOUR corp survive losing 24 out of every 25 dollars in revenue? Would you still have a job?
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Old 04-12-2020, 11:55 AM
 
8,151 posts, read 3,676,088 times
Reputation: 2719
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobNJ1960 View Post
Wrong. I'm not a huge fan of buybacks, but big picture gov't changed the planes from 85% full to 4% full, for weeks on end.

How would YOUR corp survive losing 24 out of every 25 dollars in revenue? Would you still have a job?
Well, that depends, did I have 10 years of billions and billions of record profits, and a huge tax break recently?
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Old 04-12-2020, 02:19 PM
 
26,497 posts, read 15,079,792 times
Reputation: 14644
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobNJ1960 View Post
Fully. Airlines would cease to exist w/o a bailout.
This is not true. It is possible to have the airlines exist while going through bankruptcy.

There will be a demand for airlines once Covid-19 has a vaccine.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/o...heir-employees

Airlines have a history of getting bailed out, bankruptcy, and they took profits and did buybacks and then took out loans to even do buybacks.

Airlines took 96% of their free cash flow and did stock buybacks over the past decade - while not having a serious emergency fund. This was a foolish choice. What should their consequence be?
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Old 04-12-2020, 02:25 PM
 
17,440 posts, read 9,271,173 times
Reputation: 11907
Quote:
Originally Posted by skeddy View Post
so the idea is to put millions of people out of work to punish corporate heads?
I think the idea is to "put millions of people out of work" to punish the Deplorables and make sure that Orange Man BAD! is not elected in 2020.
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Old 04-12-2020, 02:35 PM
 
34,058 posts, read 17,071,203 times
Reputation: 17212
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Originally Posted by michiganmoon View Post
This is not true. It is possible to have the airlines exist while going through bankruptcy.

There will be a demand for airlines once Covid-19 has a vaccine.

[/b]
Not going occur when your liabilities are astronomical percentages of your assets.

Now, that being said, I also think the gov't should only bail them out with the same terms 2020 stimulus has: no buybacks, limits on exec compensation hikes, and, most importantly, I'd want a ban for 5 years on discretionary (tourist) travel from USA to Asia, and to the EU if they do not ban Asian travel. Business travel should be allowed-solely with automatic 14 day quarantines of all travelers upon their return. It should also have a minimum price set by the government of $50k per round trip, as a further disincentive to travel to Asia for all.

W/O a international travel ban in the loan covenant, I'd watch them fail just as we watched Lehman fail 12 years ago.
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Old 04-12-2020, 04:11 PM
 
Location: Suburb of Chicago
31,848 posts, read 17,610,392 times
Reputation: 29385
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobNJ1960 View Post
Not going occur when your liabilities are astronomical percentages of your assets.

Now, that being said, I also think the gov't should only bail them out with the same terms 2020 stimulus has: no buybacks, limits on exec compensation hikes, and, most importantly, I'd want a ban for 5 years on discretionary (tourist) travel from USA to Asia, and to the EU if they do not ban Asian travel. Business travel should be allowed-solely with automatic 14 day quarantines of all travelers upon their return. It should also have a minimum price set by the government of $50k per round trip, as a further disincentive to travel to Asia for all.

W/O a international travel ban in the loan covenant, I'd watch them fail just as we watched Lehman fail 12 years ago.
Whose fault is that? I'd be fine with a bailout if all the C-levels are canned, not hired for another airline, and strict provisions put in place such as the ones you listed above.

Short of that, they can take a hike.
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Old 04-12-2020, 04:13 PM
 
Location: Midwest
38,496 posts, read 25,820,712 times
Reputation: 10789
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel976 View Post
So you’re saying it’s Ok to let large companies fail but not small companies? Why are you willing to punish the millions of people who work for large companies? They are no more responsible for being forced into furlough than people who work for small businesses.
Would you say you are a socialist?
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