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I watched a show a spell back about African game management. This was filmed in a different time and much has changed but it varies wildly by country what their game programs look like and how locals benefit from the wildlife.
Or dont benefit at all. One thing every country had in common. They have a shoot on sight policy for poachers. Which I applaud. We should have the same policy here in the US.
Thing with African nations is anything that is managed by government is rife with corruption. You can bet anything that involves money will not see any benefit to the regular folks. Including any legal hunting. Way back when South Africa had a program this show went into.
The government had an arrangement with the villages and bush people. They got food, medicine and medical care, all sorts of stuff they could use, tools and materials even money. In return they watched out for the animals.
When asked about what they did if they ran into poachers the answer was pretty universal. A sly smile, maybe a big one, a laugh maybe. One guy who went with the film team as a guide gave a verbal answer.
He was a big, tall hombre. 6'5 or so. Dressed in khakis carrying a G3 battle rifle. English was not his first language but didnt need to be. He said "Mmmmm...yes. Me LIKE kill poaaacchahh!"
My sorta man I tell ya. I believe he was a Zulu but I cant remember for sure. The South African game herds and predators as well were thriving.
As far as what African countries do with their wildlife I have feelings but no real opinion. Other than approval for killing poachers on sight.
Trophy hunts anywhere are a rich man's deal. I've taken some trophy animals in my time but that was never the point. I'm not rich and hunting isnt a status thing. I've passed on trophies in favor of smaller animals.
I watched a show a spell back about African game management. This was filmed in a different time and much has changed but it varies wildly by country what their game programs look like and how locals benefit from the wildlife.
Or dont benefit at all. One thing every country had in common. They have a shoot on sight policy for poachers. Which I applaud. We should have the same policy here in the US.
Thing with African nations is anything that is managed by government is rife with corruption. You can bet anything that involves money will not see any benefit to the regular folks. Including any legal hunting. Way back when South Africa had a program this show went into.
The government had an arrangement with the villages and bush people. They got food, medicine and medical care, all sorts of stuff they could use, tools and materials even money. In return they watched out for the animals.
When asked about what they did if they ran into poachers the answer was pretty universal. A sly smile, maybe a big one, a laugh maybe. One guy who went with the film team as a guide gave a verbal answer.
He was a big, tall hombre. 6'5 or so. Dressed in khakis carrying a G3 battle rifle. English was not his first language but didnt need to be. He said "Mmmmm...yes. Me LIKE kill poaaacchahh!"
My sorta man I tell ya. I believe he was a Zulu but I cant remember for sure. The South African game herds and predators as well were thriving.
As far as what African countries do with their wildlife I have feelings but no real opinion. Other than approval for killing poachers on sight.
Trophy hunts anywhere are a rich man's deal. I've taken some trophy animals in my time but that was never the point. I'm not rich and hunting isnt a status thing. I've passed on trophies in favor of smaller animals.
You cant eat horns.
Agreed. However, the only mount I have is an 80 inch pronghorn. Those things come preseasoned in the field, and if you ever shot one, you would understand why they are lovingly also called, "stinkylopes".
Whether you support hunting, African trophy hunting, are a PETA member, or are a hunter yourself, there is something in this article that you probably will not like.
However, it gives a very balanced discussion of why trophy hunting in Africa actually helps wildlife conservation, and not for the reasons brought out by the Safari Club or similar organizations.
It is not a short article, it will probably take 10 minutes to read. But it is well presented, and gave some viewpoints I was not aware of or had heard previously.
The only way trophy hunting would be ok is -since the animal only has it's body, the hunter can only use his body.
Of course no way those gutless, obese cowards would go for that.
How can killing an endangered animal help it?
so why isn't homicide being lauded as a way to help mankind?
Sounds like "somebody" (no not OP-I'm referring to the article) is getting a $$$ contribution from some trophy hunting organization, and is trying to justify murder for pleasure of already, or soon to be endangered animals to make a buck.
As usual, follow the $$$ trail-if often leads to cowardly half-men.
Except to avoid starvation(which we've done-you do what you have to do), or for self defense, I can't understand the pleasure in killing animals with guns. But then, I'm not a warped cowardly half-a-man either.
The only way trophy hunting would be ok is -since the animal only has it's body, the hunter can only use his body.
Of course no way those gutless, obese cowards would go for that.
How can killing an endangered animal help it?
There is no place on earth that endangered animals are legally hunted. Did you not read the article? Do you understand who CITIES is? A statement like you just made demonstrate ignorance of the facts.
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so why isn't homicide being lauded as a way to help mankind?
Sounds like "somebody" (no not OP-I'm referring to the article) is getting a $$$ contribution from some trophy hunting organization, and is trying to justify murder for pleasure of already, or soon to be endangered animals to make a buck.
As usual, follow the $$$ trail-if often leads to cowardly half-men.
Except to avoid starvation(which we've done-you do what you have to do), or for self defense, I can't understand the pleasure in killing animals with guns. But then, I'm not a warped cowardly half-a-man either.
I hunt, and eat everything I get. I also spent 14 years on our jurisdiction's Endangered Species board listing species that were threatened or endangered, and in one case, happy that conservation efforts allowed one species to be removed from the endangered list.
The only way trophy hunting would be ok is -since the animal only has it's body, the hunter can only use his body.
What a dumb statement...they are far more stronger than us.....
I guess if you had a 96 year old grandparent, you be cool with them fighting a 20 year old thug....
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Originally Posted by LeaveWI
Of course no way those gutless, obese cowards would go for that.
Not gutless, smart, you've failed....
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeaveWI
How can killing an endangered animal help it?
Which animal is endangered?
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeaveWI
so why isn't homicide being lauded as a way to help mankind?
Another dishonest answer
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeaveWI
Sounds like "somebody" (no not OP-I'm referring to the article) is getting a $$$ contribution from some trophy hunting organization, and is trying to justify murder for pleasure of already, or soon to be endangered animals to make a buck. As usual, follow the $$$ trail-if often leads to cowardly half-men.
To the bold, what a completely unsubstantiated comment....
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeaveWI
Except to avoid starvation(which we've done-you do what you have to do), or for self defense, I can't understand the pleasure in killing animals with guns. But then, I'm not a warped cowardly half-a-man either.
If it came to starvation, you'd have no idea how to live....there is no taco bell, BK, mcdonalds, KFC, popeyes, etc....that you can run and get....
How do you like your hamburger? What about a pork chop? REAL men go to the grocery market to get their meat....
Your useless remarks are well....useless, congrats...you've won the internet with useless drivel.
Agreed. However, the only mount I have is an 80 inch pronghorn. Those things come preseasoned in the field, and if you ever shot one, you would understand why they are lovingly also called, "stinkylopes".
Lol. Yeah. We just call them goats. Which really isnt an analogy since that is what they are. Trick is which I'm sure you know is a CLEAN kill shot is a requirement.
And get the guts out and hide off (oh and BLEED that critter) as fast as humanly possible. Get it cooled out and wrapped and get it hanging in a nice walk in.
80 inch you say? Im... unfamiliar...with the scoring measurement you're using there. Or did you mean to type 18.
Lol. Yeah. We just call them goats. Which really isnt an analogy since that is what they are. Trick is which I'm sure you know is a CLEAN kill shot is a requirement.
And get the guts out and hide off (oh and BLEED that critter) as fast as humanly possible. Get it cooled out and wrapped and get it hanging in a nice walk in.
80 inch you say? Im... unfamiliar...with the scoring measurement you're using there. Or did you mean to type 18.
I was unsure also, but just google 80 inch antelope.....
Lol. Yeah. We just call them goats. Which really isnt an analogy since that is what they are. Trick is which I'm sure you know is a CLEAN kill shot is a requirement.
And get the guts out and hide off (oh and BLEED that critter) as fast as humanly possible. Get it cooled out and wrapped and get it hanging in a nice walk in.
Yup, speed goats is the other nickname. Closest relative is the giraffe, of all critters, and one of the few ungulates to have a gall bladder.
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80 inch you say? Im... unfamiliar...with the scoring measurement you're using there. Or did you mean to type 18.
If you're unfamiliar with the term "paper park" then I'd urge you to branch out and read viewpoints from "the trenches" of park and animal conservation.
There are any number of organizations like National Geographic, Smithsonian and others that don't agree with the tropes you're slinging.
What I'm slinging? LOL. You're slinging a useless whataboutism. The topic here is trophy hunting and whether or not it's detrimental to the animals. It is detrimental and your own link even says that.
Here's a quote your YOUR link.
"The landlocked, southern African nation is one of the hardest-hit places on the continent when it comes to the killing of big game, both legal and illegal. It is a country where, Slate reports, “hunters exported 49 lion trophies in 2013 alone” and where, since Cecil’s death “it’s likely that at least a dozen other lions have been shot by trophy hunters.”A 2013 study in the journal Public Library of Science estimates that 96 lions were hunted per year between 1996 and 2006 in the country and 43 per year more recently. Lion trophy hunts were banned there in 2005 but allowed again after 2008."
I don't see anything there that refutes my points. In fact it supports it.
Start a thread on poaching if you want. But THIS topic is about trophy hunting.
A black giraffe is not endangered; it is a color phase. Did you read the article in the OP? Did you? The conservation values are outlined....but it is not a short read. Read it.
I did read it and I agree with his premise -- in theory. In theory revenue generated by legal hunting can be applied to anti-poaching efforts. In practice, that's not what happens. Don't believe me? Read this article BY THE SAME AUTHOR. Link: https://markavery.info/2016/10/02/wi...ldlife-winner/
Here's his conclusion:
"Ultimately it remains true that hunting, if properly managed, could be a useful conservation tool, but equally hunters have been complacent, lazy and unthinking in their assumption that this is always the case whereas in fact very often the opposite has been true. The axiom that all hunters are conservationists is plain nonsense. Professional hunters today are businessmen, not conservationists and not ecologists; they often operate in areas for just a few years before moving on. Whenever and wherever possible we should seek to replace hunting with non-consumptive, less disruptive forms of tourism. Naturalist hunter Lionel Reynolds, appalled twenty years ago by the direction his industry was heading, urged Professor Macdonald to set up his lion research project, but today few hunting professionals share Lionel’s scruples. Hunters can still be conservationists, but unfortunately far too few really are."
Again, that is the same author you are quoting.
The fact is that hunting is rife with abuse. I already gave you two examples, like the woman who shot the "rare" (I concede the point) giraffe. What kind of sport is that where you shoot a docile, stationary, vegetarian that towers over the brush? And this woman is proud of that? And Cecil. They lured a collared lion out of a park to kill it. That's hardly sporting. As long as hunters are willing to pay exorbitant fees to kill African animals, there will be guide companies looking to profit from them and bending the rules to do so. There isn't enough revenue from hunting to police it. In many cases there's a fine line between legal hunting and poaching.
I'd like to give you another data point you may not be aware of. Using South Africa as an example where it's legal, the revenue from trophy hunting is around $340 million. The revenue from Ecotourism (photo safaris) is $8.4 billion. Got that? Billions as compared to millions. Killing animals is a multimillion dollar business, but simply viewing them is a multiBillion dollar business. Which one do you think can afford to fund more anti-poaching efforts?
In Namibia the percentage of GDP for ecotourism is 11%, while the percentage of GDP of hunting is .24%.
Those numbers are proof. Africa doesn't need trophy hunting revenue to save the animals, as that revenue is noise compared to the industry of simply looking at them.
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