What will happen if/when the cops in George Floyd case are found not guilty? (statistics, crime rates)

[RbccL]

Originally Posted by Glenfield

People consistently ask the wrong question on this topic. The question is not “are blacks killed by police at a rate that is disproportionate to their share of the total population?” The correct question is “are blacks killed by police at a rate that is disproportionate to their share of violent criminals?” since it is overwhelmingly violent criminals who are killed by police.

One of our four people killed by police is black, but that is less than would be predicted by their proportion of violent criminals, which is over 50%.

The underlying question is why does a group that comprises 13% of the total population commit over half of the violent crimes in this country? The answer to that question is what needs to be addressed and it has nothing to do with the police.

And after reading that, another “better” question: Is being accused of paying with a counterfeit $20 bill a violent crime? How about driving while black, is that a violent crime? Sitting behind a steering wheel?

Was this instance one of a black man killed by police while committing a violent crime like rape, or assault? Is that when all blacks are killed by police, during the commission of a violent crime? No.

The thread isn’t about anyone committing a violent crime, unless you’re referring to the police. That had everything to do with the police. In this thread, this topic, not the agenda that the above constantly steers towards.

[Kavalier]

Originally Posted by RbccL

And after reading that, another “better” question: Is being accused of paying with a counterfeit $20 bill a violent crime? How about driving while black, is that a violent crime? Sitting behind a steering wheel?

Was this instance one of a black man killed by police while committing a violent crime like rape, or assault? Is that when all blacks are killed by police, during the commission of a violent crime? No.

The thread isn’t about anyone committing a violent crime, unless you’re referring to the police. That had everything to do with the police. In this thread, this topic, not the agenda that the above constantly steers towards. :

Well, MADD would most certainly say that being behind the wheel of a vehicle while high on narcotics is a "violent crime".


To that point, he died because of the fentanyl (and several other narcotics) pumping through his poor heart - that case is already being laid out by the attorneys of all the officers.


[Mod cut: personal]

[chessgeek]

Just wanted to mention that Chauvin was also charged with 9 counts of tax evasion. I doubt he will be acquitted for the death of George Floyd. When you also consider his 18 prior violations of proper police behavior/protocol, one thing we should all agree on is that he is simply not qualified to be a police officer. He even had issues as a security guard!

[wamer27]

Originally Posted by chessgeek

Just wanted to mention that Chauvin was also charged with 9 counts of tax evasion. I doubt he will be acquitted for the death of George Floyd. When you also consider his 18 prior violations of proper police behavior/protocol, one thing we should all agree on is that he is simply not qualified to be a police officer. He even had issues as a security guard!

He’s not being charged for tax evasion or on his prior violations, he’s being charged on murder. The autopsy is the key thing it all depends on. Is he out on bail? If not, why? The freedom fund had gotten accused murders out on bail. If he’s not guilty on murder, they probably come after him on tax evasions, but his time spent now and until trial will probably suffice if he’s guilty of it.

[Glenfield]

Since June 1, the prosecutors have been withholding exculpatory evidence that George Floyd died of pulmonary edema resulting from an overdose of fentanyl. This is why he complained, “I can’t breathe” while standing, well before he was subdued by the police. He was drowning in the fluid in his lungs brought on by the fentanyl. These officers will not be convicted and the charges may be dismissed before this ever gets to trial. In their rush to pacify the mobs, Minnesota’s leaders have trampled justice.

https://spectator.org/minnesota-v-de...little-secret/

[RbccL]

And once again, the rest of the story cancels out the confirmation bias needed to uphold the above.

"Baker: I am not saying this killed him.

I imagine that Baker will be asked to reconcile these versions of his thoughts — “fatal level of fentanyl under normal circumstances” vs. “could be acceptable to call an OD . . . I am not saying this killed him” — and explain in detail how his office concluded the death was a homicide.

A third document backs this conclusion, however. It’s from the Armed Forces Medical Examiner System, which the federal Department of Justice asked to review the official autopsy. In short, the feds agree that the police restraint caused the death, though of course Floyd’s intoxication and health problems contributed:

The Office of the Armed Forces Medical Examiner agrees with the autopsy findings and the cause of death certification of George Floyd as determined by the Hennepin County Medical Examiner’s Office. His death was caused by the police subdual and restraint in the setting of severe hypertensive atherosclerotic cardiovascular disease, and methamphetamine and fentanyl intoxication. The subdual and restraint had elements of positional and mechanical asphyxiation. The presence of sickle cell trait is a significant finding in this context.

We concur with the reported manner of death of homicide." - National Review August 26, 2020

[wamer27]

Originally Posted by RbccL

And once again, the rest of the story cancels out the confirmation bias needed to uphold the above.

"Baker: I am not saying this killed him.

I imagine that Baker will be asked to reconcile these versions of his thoughts — “fatal level of fentanyl under normal circumstances” vs. “could be acceptable to call an OD . . . I am not saying this killed him” — and explain in detail how his office concluded the death was a homicide.

A third document backs this conclusion, however. It’s from the Armed Forces Medical Examiner System, which the federal Department of Justice asked to review the official autopsy. In short, the feds agree that the police restraint caused the death, though of course Floyd’s intoxication and health problems contributed:

The Office of the Armed Forces Medical Examiner agrees with the autopsy findings and the cause of death certification of George Floyd as determined by the Hennepin County Medical Examiner’s Office. His death was caused by the police subdual and restraint in the setting of severe hypertensive atherosclerotic cardiovascular disease, and methamphetamine and fentanyl intoxication. The subdual and restraint had elements of positional and mechanical asphyxiation. The presence of sickle cell trait is a significant finding in this context.

We concur with the reported manner of death of homicide." - National Review August 26, 2020

The methamphetamine and fentanyl part will get the cops off. One was not determined to be the sole cause. How are you going to prove in court one overpowering the other?

[RbccL]

Originally Posted by wamer27

The methamphetamine and fentanyl part will get the cops off. One was not determined to be the sole cause. How are you going to prove in court one overpowering the other?

How? The autopsy. “His death was caused by the police subdual and restraint in the setting of severe hypertensive atherosclerotic cardiovascular disease, and methamphetamine and fentanyl intoxication”. The subdual and restraint had elements of positional and mechanical asphyxiation. The presence of sickle cell trait is a significant finding in this context.”

Even if it’s the 2 elements together, it shows he didn’t die at that time, but for the actions of the police.

Another officer informed Chauvin that he had been unable to find Floyd’s pulse. That is an objective fact. Chauvin was informed there was no pulse but continued to pin Floyd down. Was he “resisting” without a pulse? Disregarding suggestions of repositioning him so that he could breathe and wouldn’t die at their hands, then disregarding the fact that he had just died at their hands.

Of course we all have our own opinions, whether or not they are acquitted doesn’t prove he would have died without their positioning him for mechanical asphyxiation. Not chemical, not natural, but mechanical. Police historically accused are found “not guilty” overwhelmingly, because people have had the inclination not to second guess them.

We wouldn’t have even gotten to this point without the video.

[Glenfield]

Originally Posted by RbccL

How? The autopsy. “His death was caused by the police subdual and restraint in the setting of severe hypertensive atherosclerotic cardiovascular disease, and methamphetamine and fentanyl intoxication”. The subdual and restraint had elements of positional and mechanical asphyxiation. The presence of sickle cell trait is a significant finding in this context.”

Even if it’s the 2 elements together, it shows he didn’t die at that time, but for the actions of the police.

Another officer informed Chauvin that he had been unable to find Floyd’s pulse. That is an objective fact. Chauvin was informed there was no pulse but continued to pin Floyd down. Was he “resisting” without a pulse? Disregarding suggestions of repositioning him so that he could breathe and wouldn’t die at their hands, then disregarding the fact that he had just died at their hands.

Of course we all have our own opinions, whether or not they are acquitted doesn’t prove he would have died without their positioning him for mechanical asphyxiation. Not chemical, not natural, but mechanical. Police historically accused are found “not guilty” overwhelmingly, because people have had the inclination not to second guess them.

We wouldn’t have even gotten to this point without the video.

It’s all about where you place the emphasis. The jury will have to be convinced beyond a reasonable doubt that the drugs and preexisting conditions had no role in Floyd’s death, after experts will have testified that they did, and it was the actions of the police alone that killed him.

I’ve been on a murder trial jury and I can tell you that issues that initially seem clear cut in the opening statements get muddled pretty quickly.

No matter what the verdict, there will be some of us who weren’t in the courtroom to hear all the evidence first hand who will conclude that the case was decided wrongly.

[wamer27]

Originally Posted by Glenfield

Since June 1, the prosecutors have been withholding exculpatory evidence that George Floyd died of pulmonary edema resulting from an overdose of fentanyl. This is why he complained, “I can’t breathe” while standing, well before he was subdued by the police. He was drowning in the fluid in his lungs brought on by the fentanyl. These officers will not be convicted and the charges may be dismissed before this ever gets to trial. In their rush to pacify the mobs, Minnesota’s leaders have trampled justice.

https://spectator.org/minnesota-v-de...little-secret/

Wow, why isn’t this all over the news?