Quote:
Originally Posted by naicha
I remember reading Red Storm Rising ,..by Tom Clancy . Reminds me of this.
|
Clancy is a joke.
Red Storm Rising is a bigger joke and a totally implausible scenario.
Clancy wrote it using a 100% US perspective and based on a false narrative pushed by the Brookings Institute.
And even that wouldn't be so bad, except that the scenario is believable, if,
and only if, US military officers were commanding Soviet military units.
Do US general officers command Soviet military units?
Nope.
Clancy and the Brookings Institute were so stupid they didn't understand that Soviet war-fighting style was different than US war-fighting style.
The US and Britain fought Western-style: grind out ground, hold, reinforce, push on to grind out more ground, hold, reinforce, push on....
ad nauseum.
Soviet-style is vastly different
and superior to Western-style.
That is not my opinion, rather it is the opinion of the US Army who abandoned Western-style and adopted Soviet-style.
While most of you were in diapers or not even born yet, I was at TRADOC Headquarters writing doctrine on AirLand Battle 2000 which is Soviet-style war-fighting. US divisions were reorganized and there was a total reorganization of field artillery in order to fight Soviet-style. That's why you have the Abrams and Bradleys and the MRLS.
So, how stupid is Clancy?
Why Brookings?
Well, Reagan ran on a platform of increasing the military and not by just a few, by doubling its size.
The Liberals did not want that to happen so they enlisted the aid of the Brookings Institute to construct a false narrative in an attempt to defeat Reagan's well-crafted arguments.
According to the Brookings Institute and the moron Clancy, the Soviets are going to sit there and twiddle their thumbs as the US brings over the 1st Calvary Division, the remaining brigades and NG round-brigade for 1st Infantry (a forward brigade was in VII Corps), the remaining brigades and NG round-outs for 2nd Armored (a forward brigade was in NORTHAG), the remaining brigades and NG round-outs for 4th Infantry (a forward brigade was in V Corps), the 5th Mech, the 7th Infantry, the 9th Infantry, the 10th Mountain, the 24th Mech, the 82nd Airborne, the 101st Airborne, the 6th Air Attack Brigade, the 3rd CAV, and all of the reserve infantry brigades.
Right?
Wrong. Never gonna happen.
You don't need to know that Soviet military doctrine is based on surprise and speed. You just need to recognize that the best defense is a good offense and the Soviets would have attacked -- and won -- long before those units arrive to reinforce NATO.
While the US is preparing those units for movement, Army General Zhelnin would have the Northern Front of the Group of Soviet Forces Germany sweeping across northern Germany.
You know him, right? Well, I guess you don't, but I do.
What about Iceland and Scandinavia? Who cares? The Soviets did not care at all.
When General Zhelnin's massive front, which had the 10th and 16th Combined Arms Armies, the 7th, 11th, 46th and 51st Guards Tank Armies and the 7th Airborne Rifle Division, goes racing across northern Germany they'll sever Denmark and Norway at the Jutland Peninsula. Seeing how both countries had Socialist leftist governments, it's quite likely they'd Welsh on their deal with NATO and do nothing.
They couldn't do much anyway. Their tiny little armies are defensive, not offensive.
Lieutenant General Yesipov, who command the 7th Airborne Rifles was a pretty funny guy. I was with my bosses at some shindig in the MDW and he asked me if I was airborne qualified. I told him I had a preference for staying on Earth. He thought that was funny and was telling me some funny stories from earlier in his career.
So, the 7th Airborne drops in on Bremerhaven and links up with, if I remember right, the 16th CAA and the 51st GTA.
The US just lost a critical port and cannot reinforce Germany using that port.
Why is a forward brigade of 2nd Armored under British command in NORTHAG?
Because the Brits and the Germans never trust the Dutch or the miserable fat Belgian bastards.
Dutch Army is an oxymoron. It's unionized, they don't work more than 35 hours a week or 8 hours a day, without overtime pay, so they never train, except during REFORGER when American tax-payers foot the overtime bill for the Dutch (it was actually Carter who approved of basing a forward brigade in NORTHAG).
If the Socialist government in the Netherlands reneges on NATO or 10th CAA, 7th, 11th or 46th GTAs get to Rotterdam or Amsterdam, you just lost two more critical ports.
Hell, they wouldn't even have to seize the ports, they'd just have to be in the vicinity.
If the Socialist left-leaning government of the miserable fat Belgian bastards Welsh on NATO, you just lost Antwerp.
And the French? They are politically involved in NATO, but not militarily. Regardless of the political persuasions of the French government, they're likely to sit back and watch, because the French are stuck on themselves.
So, now what?
You still got the ports in Spain, but you're not gonna be able to move troops, vehicles and equipment through Neutral France or Neutral Switzerland to reinforce Germany.
You lose.
Oh, back to the ports. US ballistic missile systems have nuclear warheads only. No conventional warheads (except for the Nike-Hercules).
B-b-b-b-but Cruise Missiles.
Cruise missiles are non-ballistic, but none of that matters, because only RAF Greenham Common was operational and they did not yet have conventional warheads.
What about the other bases? The base in Germany never became operational. The nuclear warheads were delivered (I did that) but no launchers or missiles. Same with Comiso (in Italy, I did that, too). The bases in the Netherlands and Belgium had launchers and troops, but no missiles or warheads.
No conventional warheads for the Pershing II, Pershing IA or Lance.
On the other hand, Soviet missile systems have both conventional and nuclear capability.
The SS-20 had three 60 kt nuclear warheads or three 3,000 lb conventional warheads.
Either way, the SS-20s would damage the ports, rendering them unusable or in the best case scenario, severely restricted use.
What about NATO's air force?
Wouldn't exist.
The SS-20 is MRV, not a MIRV. Think of it as a nuclear shot-gun. The MRV platform arrives over the target and dumps the warheads out.
What do you suppose would happen if six SS-20s dumped over Hahn Air Base at 4:00 AM on Tuesday morning?
B-b-b-b-but the aircraft are in reveted hardstands.
Spot on. You're absolutely right.
But you don't have to damage or destroy an aircraft to render nonoperational. What else can you do?
Dead pilots cannot fly. Pilots in the BOQ or base housing would be dead.
Or wounded. Wounded pilots can't fly, either. Even if you stitch them up, the G-forces will cause them to bleed out and they'll lose consciousness and crash and then you really have lost an aircraft.
Oh, and those reveted hardstands? Aircraft and ordnance are vital to national security and so the 2-Man Rule applies.
There isn't one lock on the doors, there are two locks. We called ours Red and Yellow, but the Air Force calls theirs A and B.
You need an A-Key holder and a B-Key holder to retrieve the keys from a safe, which the 2-Man Rule also applies, so, yes, there are two separate combination locks on the safe.
For obvious security reasons, the key holders do not know the combinations.
There's maybe 8-12 people who know at least one combination. If they're dead or immobile, you're not gonna be able to open the safes. And the locks? They're designed to withstand incredible force, so you're not gonna be able to shoot them open.
And the non-ballistic missiles. The Soviets never had cruise missiles until Clinton gave them two Cray Super II computers, because that's what you need to build cruise missiles.
The BGM-109G, the Tomahawks and ALCMs have satellite telemetry, forward and downward looking radars, and can make course corrections, including changes in altitude while in-flight. They can also be re-directed.
The Kingfish and other Soviet non-ballistic missiles cruise at a fixed altitude that's programmed just before launch. The Kingfish will usually fly at 2-6 km in altitude and then once over the target, dive on it.
The Soviets would launch 100s of those at ports and US, British and German air bases.
Oh, and the vaunted Fulda Gap that Clancy raves about?
That's a big nothing-burger. You wanna know what would have happened at the Fulda Gap?
Absolutely nothing would happen very slowly.
When Army General Zehlnin moves the Northern Front to sweep across the flat plains of northern Germany, the Central Front, commanded by Army General Zgerskiy will move into the Northern Front's zone, into northern Germany and then sweep south to the US V Corps. That would be the 2nd, 14th and 23rd Combined Arms Armies, the 20th Tank Army and the 14th Airborne Rifle Division. Then, then Southern Front, commanded by Army General Komarov will move up to occupy the zone were the Central Front was (the 4th, 12th and 24th Combined Arms Armies and the 8th Guards Tank Army, plus the 4th Airborne Rifle Division) and then the Group of Soviet Forces Czechoslovakia would move up to occupy the Southern Front's zone. Don't forget the East German army would be moving with them.
So, the Fulda Gap plays no role.
Only an American officer trained in Western-style war-fighting would even think the Fulda Gap has an iota of importance.
That's how it would have played out, not the nonsense proffered by Clancy and the Brookings Institute.
The scenario they offer is exactly how a US General trained and educated in Western-style warfare would do it.
However, as I pointed out, US Generals do not command Soviet forces.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
) , but since we're doing quotes I may as well use one said by a respected member ( and ex combat veteran ) of the motorcycle club I used to hang around as a teenager ... 