Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I think all of the people who voted "against" should not be able to use the services of police, fire, libraries, schools, medicare, social security, etc. Let them live in their pure capitalistic society (that doesn't exist).
Please add to that list water. Most governments started out with private water systems. It didn't work.
And of course, despite its problems, our building codes ensure our high-rises don't collapse, the steel in them is built to spec and so forth. In the end, we have a mixed system which works well. Its not perfect, but few things in this life are.
Those are 'programs' inside of a capitalistic system... they are not independent of capitalism. In fact their product... electricity is subject to capitalistic market pricing of fuel and fuel is an electric utilities #1 cost.
Just an FYI... I'm a retired from an Electric Utility and understand how FERC-NERC-NRC-PSC and a dozen or so other agencies oversee utilities. They're not socialism in the least.
I'm not sure what's hard to understand ... that various government economic programs do not make a society socialistic. It's also true to say that United States is less socialistic then Norway and that the USA is more capitalistic than Norway. Therefore it's quite possible, with a common criteria, to create a matrix where both economic systems can be 'measured'.
Seems to me that the debate here isn't so much socialism but rather the level of government provided safety net programs...
Exactly. Social services for the public good are not the same as socialism, we’ve established this several times on this thread alone and anyone who’s taken a college level economics course understands this.
In America, the political propaganda machine defines socialism far more simply:
- Any social program I don’t support.
So then, it it your position that a national healthcare plan is not socialism, and therefore nothing to worry about?
I never suggested that public healthcare was “nothing to worry about”, how we fund public programs is always a legitimate debate.
I’m simply pointing out that social programs and socialism are not the same thing. Jealousy and envy are not the same thing either but also are frequently used incorrectly.
It's no longer what socialism was - it's what it means now.
The new socialism in US politics is free stuff, but without the work.
Just tax the bejeezus out of evil super rich corporations and the 1%ers and give everyone: UBI, free health care, free college, free day care, loan forgiveness...did I leave anything out?
National health care, lets look at an example, The Veterans Administration (VA) . Government run, independent of private health care services, (** in the past). How did that go? Rhetorical.
Introduce private health care services as an option and the VA improves. Why is that? Go figure
I have a friend from Norway. Very Socialist and a hypocrite, but a good guy over all. We had a talk about the American way vs Norway. He used the example of a woman leaves work to have a family. In the USA she would likely lose her job. At the very least she wouldn't see the promotions of her male peers. (His take on our system). In Norway she would not only keep her job, but receive comparable promotions like her peers. I asked who pays for this generosity? He said society. I asked why is he an expat? He said cost of living is too high in Norway. LOL
He was astounded when I said the woman makes a choice. Her career or be a stay at home mom. She is free to do so, but it is her choice and her burden. How is it fair to her peers who stayed on the job, worked for their promotions, learned the new technologies along the way and won't need to be retrained? How is it fair for the company to have to pay someone for years for work they never did? His only answer was it is fair for the mother. Im sure that it is.
They also have another program where someone can take time off from work, up to 2 years, paid, just because they dont feel like working anymore. He didn't like that program so much.
He made the mistake of going home in March for a visit. He loves the spring time in his own country. He can't come back because this country is very restrictive right now due to covid. When he lived here we went out together 3 times a week. He and his family always ate out. Now he can only afford to go out twice a month. A 12oz beer costs $12 USD and up. LOL "Hows that socialism working out" I asked him. He told me to go F myself. LOL
Most people don't really understand what socialism is. A lot of the anti-socialist talk we hear boils down to an opinion that people are lazy. Many people seem to think the republican idea of socialism (as I'll call it, given programs democrats currently call for really aren't socialist) is bad because people won't work hard or put in effort unless they are suffering, or unless they have some kind of fear or being without.
I have a better view of people. People will do pretty amazing things if they weren't at risk of being on the street, and people would do amazing things if they didn't live in constant fear of not having enough to survive.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
LOL
