Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Naa, wokeness is common across Europe. It is correlated with democracy and wealth, not religion.
I don't believe in any kind of "grass-roots" movements. That doesn't mean they're fake, but that they never gain traction until they get corporate-sponsorship. Nationwide organizing is expensive, so unless wealthy people are funding something, it doesn't happen.
You do, it just isn't as mainstream. Wokeness is really just a political tool. Either it is useful for those in power, or it isn't. The question is, what interests does wokeness serve? Why has it become so well-funded?
They're cosmopolitan. Wokeness goes hand-in-hand with globalism/internationalism. The wokes in Europe have no attachment to their own countries. They often attach themselves to the European Union to distinguish themselves from their national identities.
George Orwell talked about this in his essay "England your England" in 1941.
If course there is wokeness abroad in none English spaces. It's jsut that woke culture is distinct and utterly unique. That is Waht in trying to say here. And I say this as someone who spent time in 3 out of the 5 white Anglo nations and being born in United States. Johnathon haidt also states that the same woke stuff is also in Australia.
It seems that we are knee deep in a era where we are hyper on "race" and political correctness, erasing people who we've held as heroes for hundreds of years, trying to change our curriculum in school to say America started in 1619, extreme cancel culture, etc.
These issues seem to be hated by 70% of the population, yet they keep getting pushed at the highest levels, such as in Democrat-controlled areas in DC, in schools, and in the elite media and sports.
I see these things as having a short shelf life, but who knows? What do you think will happen to turn the tide on this insanity and how long do you think it will last?
The wokeness covers a lot of terrain, and it will a negative impact on too many people, we will soon collectively throw our arms in the air and shout “enough already!†Groupthink only works when people agree with it. Pick a day to rebel against it, I’m with you.
Here is my take on this whole wokeness that has proliferated in the white Anglo Saxon world in past ten years. First off this woke thing is not new and in the White Anglo Saxon culture, these types of social movements have appeared numerous times every other generation. A good example of such are the protestant awakening movements in the late 18th, 19th and mid 20th centuries. Plenty of these protestants' believes in giving equity for people, were against racism like the Quakers, and many in the Great Awakening movement wanted to end slavery at all means just like your John Brown who was influenced by the Great Awakening. You know the John Brown that raided Harpers Ferry in Virginia and killed half a dozen people in order to free Slaves in Virginia! Also the Great Awakening in the 1950s inspired the Civil Rights Movement like MLK and Medgar Evers, as well as Billy Graham which helped integrate churches. But The Great Awakening in the 1950s also gave birth to Jim Jones which combined Christianity with Marxism which will lead nearly 900 residents most being radicals who believe in ideals of black liberation, and antiracism that lived in the Bay Area to move to Guyana in South America to drink laced Cyanide Kool Aide.
This kind of stuff really isn't limited to the Anglo-Saxon world either. In many cases, "woke" is a response to being oppressed. I'll get back to that in a moment.
John Brown is a hero to me. He understood that violence is often the only way to get freedom. Slave owners had to be violently dealt with. And he isn't alone in terms of slave rebellions.
Which is where I get back to this stuff not being limited to Anglo-Saxons. Consider all of the slave rebellions that Black people put together. Stono River, Nat Turner's Rebellion, the rebellion in Haiti that would lead to Haiti's independence. By the way, Napoleon sent Polish mercenaries to put down the slave rebellion. Many Polish mercenaries turned against Napoleon and sided with the slaves, who just wanted their freedom. Poland was one of the first places in the world to abolish slaves.
And then consider this. You mention the Quakers. Some of that Great Awakening made its way to Germany. The Mennonites are a good example of this. Lutheranism too. The Reformation started in Germany.
Black liberation theology did not start with Dr. King. Go look up Marcus Garvey. He preached his own version of "let's go back to Africa" and he started the UNIA. The African Orthodox Church formed out of it.
And think about this. 45% of those who went with Jim Jones to Jonestown were Black women. Black women were the ones who were sticking with Johes at the highest rates. Many of his White followers started to think he was nuts and left him.
Quote:
The woke stuff that we have seen through history was mainly religious, but the woke stuff we see now is mainly secular. Also this woke stuff like black, LGBT, Feminism alliance, native American, undocumented, able, green, 72 genders, mental health, and Islam, is mainly in white Anglo Saxon countries, and you don't see such is Hispanic, Lusophone or Francophone nations, as well as non western nations since many countries are collective, patriarchal, and not individualist, not liberal and not Protestant compared like the white Protestant Anglo Nations which are former in identity. You wont see this woke stuff in China, Russia, Japan, India, Latin America, Latin Europe, Africa, Middle East, and even in 2nd tier Anglo Nations like a Jamaica or Barbados for example. The interesting thing about the Wokes in Anglo Saxon nations is that they push their ideology one way or another onto other nations and cultures. Its kind of like a new form of imperialism and colonialism. A good example of such is budget sent to Pakistan to teach gender studies. IN which a country like Pakistan gender lines are clear and established compared to the blurry liberal Anglo Nations. As for economics?
The secular woke stuff also loomed large in the Black American population, but on a different level. Black Panthers, Nation of Islam, UNIA, etc. One of the tenets of the Black Panthers was Marxism. And the persons who were the most receptive to it were Black people living in the ghettos. While "woke" isn't taken on in poorer countries, it has taken on for Black Americans living in some of the worst conditions in America.
Quote:
The Wokes tend to be as very Bourgeoise. Many live in affluent cities on the coasts, as well as being highly educated. You can easily call the Wokes out for using Apple products which are made in Communist China in which China practices systemic racism against minority populations like the Islamic Uygers. And you can watch the Wokes choke up or have a hard time making a rebuttal. And the Wokes are supposed to be truth and virtues with what they stand for! Also most of the wokes are affluent white American Protestants.
Among Whites, the "woke" movement is among the bourgeoisie.
Quote:
With that said this Woke stuff will be around for sometime, but it may die down and reemerge years down the line. Like in many ideologies you will have your radicals, your fundamentalist's, and your extremist like a John Brown and a Jim Jones, you also have that in your woke ideology, but as well as in many other ideologies. Last the Woke Ideology mainly comes out of AngloSaxon public and secular private unversitites, and their ideas are pushed out through social media and MSM/Journalism.
IF you want to learn more about Woke ideology. Please read Bret and Eric Weinstein, James Lindsey, Coleman Hughes, Sam Harris, John McWhorter, Joe Rogan, and Johnathan Haidt who breaks down Woke ideology. Not all woke people are bad, but their world view is warped, and for them, their worldview is objectively true.
The "woke" ideology might live on, but I see it being co-opted with other movements. I think about this. There have certainly been a share of White Anglo leftist movements. However, I also think about this. The "woke" movements among Black Americans had alot of roots in dealing with oppression. What happened later on was that many movements that had nothing to do with the Black community started to emerge and try to co-opt the movement.
There has always been some kind of "woke" in some form or fashion. However, it varies based on the cause, the time, the place, and the events going on.
The wokeness covers a lot of terrain, and it will a negative impact on too many people, we will soon collectively throw our arms in the air and shout “enough already!†Groupthink only works when people agree with it. Pick a day to rebel against it, I’m with you.
Well, in order to tackle the kind of "wokeness" you're speaking of, you need to get everyone on board. There are many people who, while not agreeing with it, do not see "wokeness" as a problem that affects them. Many will not care until it affects their lives personally. It isn't so much "group think" but many people looking out for themselves and what they are looking for.
They have no clue how stupid it makes them look to reasonable everyday people. When a group of people lack the ability to feel shame, they can be oblivious to a lot of things.
For some people, it isn't a lack of shame. It's the feeling of "this isn't my problem". Many people are oblivious to some things because they are more concerned with their own issues and no one else.
And this is part of what it comes down to. There are individuals who don't agree with the "woke" movement. However, many ignore the uglier stuff. Why? For said persons, the only alternative is to ignore racism and injustices that go on. There are some people who are oblivious to the hatred of George Washington, or to how far the "woke" movement is going. Why? Because some people feel like "until my issues and my problems are fully address, anything else is of no concern to me".
If course there is wokeness abroad in none English spaces. It's jsut that woke culture is distinct and utterly unique. That is Waht in trying to say here. And I say this as someone who spent time in 3 out of the 5 white Anglo nations and being born in United States. Johnathon haidt also states that the same woke stuff is also in Australia.
Maybe I'm just confused what wokeness is. Is Sweden and Germany not woke?
This is too long to read all of it now, but I did search this thread for the word "considerate" and didn't find it. That's basically what being woke is, being considerate of others' sensibilities. If a group finds certain words, structures, institutions, or narratives offensive, it's only considerate to take their feelings into consideration and look for a way forward that does not demean them. If you reject being a decent person, of course, others might take offense.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
