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Carnegie donated to public libraries, these stay alive because of institutional power, or in other words they are protected from the market.
Anything else is fair game.
Shareholders don't care about culture, community, or society, they care about capital appreciation.
If a community model that is locally funded cannot provide that, they will be priced out and consumed by the market.
What do you think is happening in Nevada? Tax incentive to big tech brings them more employment, but the surrounding industries are made dependent on the stock value of some company.
Anything bad for the stock value is something that cannot compete in the global markets. Anything bad for their stock value is all the sudden bad for the employees, and surrounding industry.
Anything that does not help appreciate capital goes out of business.
Businesses have to have employees. Employee turnover is something businesses try to reduce. Employees aren't the serfs you make them out to be. Especially highly skilled employees. The employee ultimately decides what conditions he will work under. Businesses have to meet those conditions or suffer higher turnover and a lower quality employee group.
It's a purple state, and the governor services big tech since that is their largest growth prospect. Nevada is a desert state, and they use their open land to offer generous tax breaks to tech corporations from the west coast to come and settle.
Read the proposal, it is a libertarian dream.
I disagree. Seems like crony capitalism. Nevada has a dem governor. Did not vote for Trump in 2016 or 2020. Has 2 dem senators. Nothing purple about that and a Dem sponsored this bill. Nevada is blue not purple.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324
I don't like Joe or Kamala, they believe in utilizing the government for progressive means, giving corporations the necessary infrastructure to 'better' invest in American communities and enforce desired outcomes.
I don't like democrats, republicans, or libertarians.
But this thread is about libertarians.
You link a AP story and call it Libertarian. AP does not.
Businesses have to have employees. Employee turnover is something businesses try to reduce. Employees aren't the serfs you make them out to be. Especially highly skilled employees. The employee ultimately decides what conditions he will work under. Businesses have to meet those conditions or suffer higher turnover and a lower quality employee group.
Got nothing to do with it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oklazona Bound
I disagree. Seems like crony capitalism. Nevada has a dem governor. Did not vote for Trump in 2016 or 2020. Has 2 dem senators. Nothing purple about that and a Dem sponsored this bill. Nevada is blue not purple.
Decide for yourself.
A big company has the capital to own land, and now they are building houses, can levy taxes (rent), build schools, and fire departments with their own money.
There’s another good point. Libertarianism isn’t hot on cozy business/government relationships. “We†actually would prefer to eliminate subsidies, everything from tax incentives to outright subsidies for everything from ag to oil, even foreign aid. Crony capitalism is kind of a lefty term these days, but not entirely inaccurate - the idea is that government should not pick winners and losers. Rather than the classic “business friendly†tax incentive model, libertarians would most likely seek to cut taxes and red tape across the board to encourage fresh entrepreneurship rather than bend over backwards to court individual, often larger business ventures. A lot of the incentive packages offered to large potential employers actually serves as a model to Chinese business policy. Many of these packages here include some locally funded services like building roads and water/sewer infrastructure where it otherwise would not have taken place. China’s CCP supercharged that and added building housing for employers, for instance. The normal business incentive model is anything but a libertarian dream.
Again, I have some different thoughts on this, but I do think it’s good to point out where libertarianism differs in terms of perception vs what a lot of the core tenets actually are.
Yeah, like established before in this thread, anything public is government.
A village council is a government because they govern. A town mayor is a government body.
Privatization is when the private sector has control, which is a money based operation with no border.
The town of Peterborough is a government organization.
Libertarians I know wouldn't give power to any government, small or large, they want to privatize government functions.
Government comes in many flavors.
No, those first public libraries were not mandated by a government bilking the citizenry of the hours of their lives. It was a voluntary project. THAT is the way liberty works. We cooperate, not mandate.
There’s another good point. Libertarianism isn’t hot on cozy business/government relationships. “We†actually would prefer to eliminate subsidies, everything from tax incentives to outright subsidies for everything from ag to oil, even foreign aid. Crony capitalism is kind of a lefty term these days, but not entirely inaccurate - the idea is that government should not pick winners and losers. Rather than the classic “business friendly†tax incentive model, libertarians would most likely seek to cut taxes and red tape across the board to encourage fresh entrepreneurship rather than bend over backwards to court individual, often larger business ventures. A lot of the incentive packages offered to large potential employers actually serves as a model to Chinese business policy. Many of these packages here include some locally funded services like building roads and water/sewer infrastructure where it otherwise would not have taken place. China’s CCP supercharged that and added building housing for employers, for instance. The normal business incentive model is anything but a libertarian dream.
Again, I have some different thoughts on this, but I do think it’s good to point out where libertarianism differs in terms of perception vs what a lot of the core tenets actually are.
The problem is can we trust businesses to act ethically without government keeping them in check? Can we trust that companies will not dump things into the river in the name of being profitable? Can we trust that businesses will pay and compensate employees beyond pauper wages? Can we trust that companies will not only compensate executives and stockholders when there is a good run? Can we trust that companies in particular healthcare companies, treat their customers with respect rather than telling them to pound sand? In reality and not utopia, companies are barely able to act totally ethical with government safeguards.
A big company has the capital to own land, and now they are building houses, can levy taxes (rent), build schools, and fire departments with their own money.
Why is this anything but libertarian?
That is like a company town. Mining towns for example. The mine owns all the land rents dwellings for the workers and often had a company store where they could by essentials.
The fallacy of your argument is somehow the government has more checks and balances that a business would have and would be more fair. But the mining town needs workers to be productive. If they treat the workers poorly the workers will move away. You really don't need the government mandating a bunch of regulations since the free market will dictate that.
The problem is can we trust businesses to act ethically without government keeping them in check? Can we trust that companies will not dump things into the river in the name of being profitable? Can we trust that businesses will pay and compensate employees beyond pauper wages? Can we trust that companies will not only compensate executives and stockholders when there is a good run? Can we trust that companies in particular healthcare companies, treat their customers with respect rather than telling them to pound sand? In reality and not utopia, companies are barely able to act totally ethical with government safeguards.
After the last 4 years and the 2020 election can you say the government is ethical. And when they are not who is keeping the government in check? Business has much less power. They don't have the power to charge someone with crimes or print money. I don't advocate a world without governments at all. Just a world where governments have limits like our forefathers envisioned. The main purpose of government should be defense from invasion by foreign countries and handle disputes within the court system.
There is competition among businesses for employees. A business wants to pay $1 an hour for labor no one will work there. They will go work somewhere else. And in a Libertarian world there is a robust court system. A customer is being treated badly the can take them to court or simply not use their product again. If enough people decide that the company goes out of business. And now in the age of social media word of a crooked business will spread instantly.
That is like a company town. Mining towns for example. The mine owns all the land rents dwellings for the workers and often had a company store where they could by essentials.
The fallacy of your argument is somehow the government has more checks and balances that a business would have and would be more fair. But the mining town needs workers to be productive. If they treat the workers poorly the workers will move away. You really don't need the government mandating a bunch of regulations since the free market will dictate that.
Yeah, this is not true.
It is exactly like a mining town, which is the problem.
Your argument for mining towns is the same one used for slavery, the owner would take care of them because they were valuable commodities.
The difference is miners are wage labor, not property. They can be replaced with far more ease.
Now a government is a stable institution for one given area. It represents a people, and is not mandated by shareholders.
If a company town were to lose their profitability, then the private government would liquidize it.
There is also the point of fact that this is a terrible form of existence, it is how the pilgrims first lived when they came to America (they were owned by investors in London), and that it destroys all civil society.
It is exactly like a mining town, which is the problem.
Your argument for mining towns is the same one used for slavery, the owner would take care of them because they were valuable commodities.
The difference is miners are wage labor, not property. They can be replaced with far more ease.
Now a government is a stable institution for one given area. It represents a people, and is not mandated by shareholders.
If a company town were to lose their profitability, then the private government would liquidize it.
There is also the point of fact that this is a terrible form of existence, it is how the pilgrims first lived when they came to America (they were owned by investors in London), and that it destroys all civil society.
Mine workers are not slaves. And using the pilgrims as an example? Really? Horrible analogies. Slaves could not leave no matter how they were treated. Pilgrims were the only Europeans in the new world, what options did they have? Mine workers or company town workers can leave. That is a huge difference. I am quite familiar with a particular copper mining town in Arizona and people came far and wide to work there. Being in a someone remote area the company had to pay better than a worker could get in a city job and that is what they did. I believe there is still a company mining town in eastern Arizona.
I believe you are a big Trump supporter, correct? Amazing how the GOP have become just like the Democrats. Big government, stimulus checks and wanting more government regulation of business. And just like in 2016 when there were endless anti-libertarian threads on here were back to knocking Libertarians once again.
Last edited by Oklazona Bound; 02-06-2021 at 08:47 AM..
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