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While they started out ahead of most of us, they eventually have to pick it up and actually do something. If not, they can lose their wealth very quickly. Having said that, I agree with you and winter (can’t believe I am saying this ) that is was partially due to greed that jobs went overseas. That is not the complete answer though. Unions do share some blame as well, not for their demands directly but for sowing workplace environments that were not conducive to creativity and ingenuity. It only took the Japanese a couple decades after a devastating war to build more reliable cars than the big three. Between the unions, company leadership greed AND laziness, and incompetent government leadership, the big three were doomed and also places like Detroit. Sure, they survived, but they along with what could have been a world class city (Detroit) are a shell of what they could have been.
I'd recommend you to read some info about Japanese companies - how they are organized, how they treat employees etc. Yeah, they are the great economic success, but you know why? They copied Soviet Union approach, but on a company level instead of state level, i.e. there is full blown socialism inside each company. Unexpected, right?
No, in 1964, minimum wage was $1.25. That is 12.5 dimes minted that year. 12.5 dimes of LEGAL TENDER that year. In 1964, a dime was a dime, was a dime and worth 10cents, nothing to do with 1964 silver bullion value. After that year coins were debased, it was pretend FIAT money with MARGINAL INTRINSIC VALUE, so your 1965 dime is only worth 10 cents in 1965 and in 2021. The current spot melt value for a silver Roosevelt dime is $1.88 https://www.coinflation.com/silver_coin_values.html 12.5 dimes x $1.88 is $23.50. See the dime was worth a dime in 1964. That same dime had intrinsic silver value which has increased to $1.88 each as of TODAY. https://www.coinflation.com/silver_coin_values.html
Now as say value fluctuates, so one would want to calculate a mean average each year as minimum wage for the next year.
Trying to play games with silver value in 1964 is meaningless cause that dime minted in 1964 WAS WORTH 10cents in legal tender. IT WOULD BUY 10cents worth of goods and services in 1964 prices. Today yea you could still buy ten cents of goods and services with it as legal tender, but the intrinsic value means real inflation makes you a FOOL to do this when somebody would give you $1.88 for it to melt down.
well..if you are going to look at heavy metal price then 1964 ounce of gold was 35.35...today it is 1862.50 (52.68x)
so the min wage by YOUR STANDARD should be $80/hr based on gold
I'd recommend you to read some info about Japanese companies - how they are organized, how they treat employees etc. Yeah, they are the great economic success, but you know why? They copied Soviet Union approach, but on a company level instead of state level, i.e. there is full blown socialism inside each company. Unexpected, right?
they also EXPECT you to work About 72 to 78 hours a week
they also EXPECT you to work About 72 to 78 hours a week
Quote:
Originally Posted by kanonka
They used to expect this because that was the cultural norm. These days they force workers to go home after the shift. Unimaginable here, right?
It's been about 6 years since I worked for a Japanese owned company. Prior I spent 5 years at one and 3 at another. It was definitely an eye opening experience. The majority of my career I worked 50 hours a week, up until I started working at those companies. I'd get scoffed at for working "part time".
It was mind boggling how many hours you were "expected" to work. It the one place, I'd start at 6am and work until 7pm, many others worked until 10pm. Granted, they weren't early starters, most came in around 8 or 9am. There was a lot of racism and misogyny at those companies.
well..if you are going to look at heavy metal price then 1964 ounce of gold was 35.35...today it is 1862.50 (52.68x)
so the min wage by YOUR STANDARD should be $80/hr based on gold
We didnt have any gold currency minted in 1964. Gold by that point was too expensive and too rare, it would meant teeny tiny gold coins to be practical. If you dont understand that, sorry for you. Its not about bullion price, or price of iron or whatever, its about currency with intrinsic value as a measure of inflation. 1964 was the last year currency had intrinsic value so I set that as the standard. A dime in 1964 had close to a dime of silver content. It is a fairly accurate way to measure ACTUAL inflation. Price a new car in 1964, in silver content Roosevelt dimes. You will find its pretty accurate as to price of car today. More so than govt inflation figures or spot prices of various commodities.
I get it, you want a slave class working for less than it takes to live. White man's burden and your God given right to other people's labor at price YOU want to pay or some such nonsense. Too bad, too sad. My notion is that any job not paying enough for the person filling it to live, doesnt need to exist. ITS A BURDEN ON SOCIETY and makes others subsidize your business interests. And for those employers wanting to play games with part time, well they should pay proportional amounts of benefits they are trying to avoid paying. Make it if anything more expensive to play such games.
As I say, it would be fairer to calculate necessary minimal living expenses in each and every community in which a job is offered. But due to huge polarization of political views of 2021, that would skew to whoever had political control in that community. Thus the need for a national standard. It works pretty well. Yes there are cheap rural communities, but they are cheap for a reason, there are few people and few jobs and few services. And there are super expensive urban communities, but that is more of a choice. Lot rich are dependent on people serving them, so they have to provide affordable housing or do for themselves.
He/she is saying that it was the greed of the corporations that wanted to exploit workers in poorer countries was the cause of union decimation
No, Winterbeard misread my earlier post and thought I was blaming the Unions for moving the factories.
"Just moving the factory etc. overseas hurt those unions the most. Not sure what "crack downs" are required. The corporations have found a wonderful source of cheap labor"
No, in 1964, minimum wage was $1.25. That is 12.5 dimes minted that year. 12.5 dimes of LEGAL TENDER that year. In 1964, a dime was a dime, was a dime and worth 10cents, nothing to do with 1964 silver bullion value. After that year coins were debased, it was pretend FIAT money with MARGINAL INTRINSIC VALUE, so your 1965 dime is only worth 10 cents in 1965 and in 2021. The current spot melt value for a silver Roosevelt dime is $1.88 https://www.coinflation.com/silver_coin_values.html 12.5 dimes x $1.88 is $23.50. See the dime was worth a dime in 1964. That same dime had intrinsic silver value which has increased to $1.88 each as of TODAY. https://www.coinflation.com/silver_coin_values.html
Now as say value fluctuates, so one would want to calculate a mean average each year as minimum wage for the next year.
Trying to play games with silver value in 1964 is meaningless cause that dime minted in 1964 WAS WORTH 10cents in legal tender. IT WOULD BUY 10cents worth of goods and services in 1964 prices. Today yea you could still buy ten cents of goods and services with it as legal tender, but the intrinsic value means real inflation makes you a FOOL to do this when somebody would give you $1.88 for it to melt down.
You could have melted it down in 1964 for about 90 cents.
The fact that the federal government, in all it's glorious efficiency, was using $1 of metal to make a ten cent coin in 1964 is the part you're missing.
I apologize that reading comprehension isn't your thing.
Pretty simple. Factories and work was outsourced because corporations could get away with paying people much less in poorer countries.
I would place the blame for that on greed. You apparently blame the people who were fighting for workers rights and improving work conditions.
I wasn't blaming the unions, I blamed the corporations.
You turning around and accusing me of blaming the unions is why I did not understand your post.
I mean I even talk about the corporations exploiting a new source of cheap labor in illegals....I have no idea how you came away thinking I was blaming unions.
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) that is was partially due to greed that jobs went overseas. That is not the complete answer though. Unions do share some blame as well, not for their demands directly but for sowing workplace environments that were not conducive to creativity and ingenuity. It only took the Japanese a couple decades after a devastating war to build more reliable cars than the big three. Between the unions, company leadership greed AND laziness, and incompetent government leadership, the big three were doomed and also places like Detroit. Sure, they survived, but they along with what could have been a world class city (Detroit) are a shell of what they could have been.
