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People here always seem to be looking for an excuse why not to take the vaccine. It helps ... take it.
If for no other reason than it helps suppress the number of new variants that inevitably pop up. Vaccines administered around the world and here at home are an important component in our war against the disease. We are all potential incubators of new strains. Once we are infected (even if mildly), the virus can replicate into the millions within our own body ... hijacking millions of our own cells and using them to replicate ... eventually killing those cells. Somewhere along in that process of replicating millions of times over, the virus can mutate or recombine with another similar virus and one of us personally can be the source of a new variant that could potentially kill thousands of other people.
Let's not let that happen, if we have any chance at all of slowing down the spread we should do so. It is an individual choice but it should be an easy decision to make, I don't know why people keep looking for excuses not to take the vaccine.
I feel like it depends on the risk to benefit though, again since the mrna vaccines are so new in their technology and we don't know what's going to happen years down the road. So it's making a calculation with a lot of uncertainties. Again for those of us in high risk groups, agree it totally makes sense to get vaccinated because whatever the longer term questions about the vaccines a couple years down the road, it's almost certainly going to be more dangerous for us to get COVID. But for our kids of childbearing age, let alone our grandkids, no way. Their death and complication rate from COVID is very low by comparison, their own immune systems take care of it just fine in 99.99% of cases, so for them, taking a new vaccine with a new technology like this would be putting themselves at risk of unknown complications down the road from such a new medical technology as used in the mrna vaccines.
To be clear they've all gotten their childhood shots and we get our shingles and pneumonia shots, but there's a huge difference between established, well known vaccines with decades of safety and effectiveness data like polio or MMR, and experimental vaccines never used on such a large scale. The usual generalized argument about how "vaccines are safe" is a kind of confirmation bias because we use it for vaccines that have had 20-30 years of data backing that up, using well known technologies. This argument forgets the many other vaccine candidates that failed clinical trials because they caused harm, either immediately or longer term, like the swine flu disaster back when Gerald Ford was president. And that's where the mrna vaccines are right now, still experimental with less than a full year of data, with some promise like plenty of other vaccines but no idea what'll happen a few years later. One of our doctors said there might be some danger that the mrna vaccines might be crossing into the brain and spinal cord because of the unique "package" that's used to deliver the vaccines, and we wouldn't know side effects for many years since it takes that long for nerve damage to show up. She didn't commit either way to recommending or discouraging the vaccine, like so many other doctors she's sitting on the fence, but she was warning us that we don't know longer term issues.
For us in a high-risk category, sure, it probably still makes sense to take it because it's our hard to see how it would be greater than the COVID risk for us. But not for a lot of other people. And I don't totally understand your reasoning when you say that more people taking the vaccine might prevent resistant variants, it seems like the opposite would be true. The latest news reports in our area are saying that one of the variants they've been finding nearby, I think the California variant apparently does appear to be vaccine resistant, though fortunately it's not the major strain in our state. So, wouldn't the vaccine actually select for that variant to multiply more? This is what happens with antibiotic resistance after all, and why the hospitals are always trying to limit overuse of antibiotics unless necessary--it simply selects for resistant strains. Penicillin doesn't work for many skin infections anymore because it was overused, and now the major bacteria are resistant. I know vaccines don't work exactly the same way, but the principle still seems the same, if anything the vaccine would be selecting for the multiplication and spread of the resistant variants. I think they're saying this might be behind the spikes they're seeing in at least some parts of Britain, Israel and the U.A.E. even after broad vaccination, the variants are being selected for and they spread more virulently.
.... again since the mrna vaccines are so new in their technology and we don't know what's going to happen years down the road.....
For us in a high-risk category, sure, it probably still makes sense to take it because it's our hard to see how it would be greater than the COVID risk for us.
Again, J&J vaccine uses technology that is decades old. Again,Why not J&J for you if you are concerned about mRNA being newer technology that you are unsure about?
Location: Was Midvalley Oregon; Now Eastside Seattle area
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We have DNI orders on file with the hospital. A severe case of CoVid could be our death.
We opted for the vaccine and take our chances with a milder case to asymtomatic to immunity to CoVid variant #0.
Being in a NH-skilled nursing facility, is not a good sign for a recovery from any illness or physical disability-a lesser Hospice than a hospital's ICU.
Outbreak increase in Canada --- 7 day average 3193 as of March 15th -- that's the 7 day verage
That's the same as the 7 day average the beginning of February.
Definitely Canada is overstating the 'crisis.....but then that's why they have a much lower case rate per capita and a much lower death rate per capita
Outbreak increase in Canada --- 7 day average 3193 as of March 15th -- that's the 7 day verage
That's the same as the 7 day average the beginning of February.
Definitely Canada is overstating the 'crisis.....but then that's why they have a much lower case rate per capita and a much lower death rate per capita
yeah I think Canada's had a significantly lower case rate than the US in general from the start, they've never had outbreaks like what USA had in New York, Texas or California. I feel like they may have also just been doing less testing at one point, but their lower rate of hospitalization suggests it's not just a matter of testing differences.
experimental vaccines never used on such a large scale
These are not experimental vaccines. I keep seeing this bizarre assumption that one can look at a development timeline and decide it seems to short therefore they must still be experimental, as if there is a certain threshold in years where a medical treatment stops being experimental. Can you name one safety protocol that was bypassed in development, testing, and approval of the mRNA vaccines for covid-19? No, "I know nothing about vaccine development but seemed kinda fast to me" is not a violation of a safety protocol.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corascant
And that's where the mrna vaccines are right now, still experimental with less than a full year of data
Human trials of cancer vaccines using the same mRNA technology have been taking place for over a decade, this is part of the reason the development process was so much faster. They already had the mRNA platform for cancer and other vaccines under trial, it was just a matter of using the genomic sequence of the covid virus.
What I'm seeing in this thread is people trying to use bitter mockery to bully people with legitimate questions into shutting the hell up about it, and some of the posters doing it normally try to pretend they're above all that. Disappointing.
What I'm seeing in this thread is people trying to use bitter mockery to bully people with legitimate questions into shutting the hell up about it, and some of the posters doing it normally try to pretend they're above all that. Disappointing.
Totally agree. The COVID19 vaccine discussions seem to bring out the crazy dogma and dogmatism in a way similar to the cancel culture sickness infecting so much of the US, particularly those trying to shut up debate about their safety and effectiveness, concerns about potential long term issues, or even reasonable discussions about risk benefit calculations. These are not decades old vaccines with a well established track record of being safe and effective, they're experimental agents with less than a year of large scale testing in humans. People have every right and responsibility to be asking pointed questions about them, even those of us with an interest in taking them, and to demand complete transparency from authorities.
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