Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The Federal Government shut down all cruising from/ to US ports, more than a year ago. Some may recall the at seas mayhem that occurred while hundreds of cruise ships were at sea last year and all countries closed their ports. Passengers were not allowed to disembark. Ship were not able to refuel or obtain provisions.
Cruise lines quarantined all passengers in their cabins when Covid was detected on board. A cruise ship is not equipped to handle advanced ICU care. Countries declined to allow airlifted passengers to be transported. . And sadly, there were some deaths onboard.
Florida declined to allow cruise ships with mostly US passengers to return to Florida ports. Eventually, Trump had to intervene.
Some may recall, Trump and De Santis advocated for Federal bailouts of cruise lines. That did not go over well in Congress regardless of party.
As threatened, Governor De Santis has filed suit against the Federal Government to allow cruising which appears to be more of a political rather than practical stunt. At least 60,000 people work jobs directly by related to cruising in Florida and the port cities and the state derive $ hundreds of millions in revenue from per passenger port taxes/ fees. The state also imposes a 6% hotel tax on top of county and local government taxes.
The missing piece is that cruise ships have nowhere to go because of global travel restrictions. A 100 + year old Federal law, requires foreign - flagged ships to make at least one port call in a foreign country, when traveling between US ports.
Most cruises sailing from Florida ports visit Caribbean nation ports. Most of these island nations have strict Covid entry requirements and quarantines. No two countries have the same requirements. As much as they need tourism revenues, they do not have the infrastructure to address the risk of a Covid surge that tens of thousands, of daily, mostly US tourists could introduce.
Norwegian Cruise Line recently announced that it and subsidiary cruise lines, Oceania and Regent 7 Seas, have mandated acceptable proof of full vaccine at least 2 weeks prior to sail. They are using this standard to negotiate foreign port and disembarkation privileges. They are aware of the ease of counterfeiting proof of vaccine and advocate for some sort of vaccine indicator on passports, which are required to travel.
Likely Carnival and Royal Caribbean cruise lines and their subsidiaries will follow Norwegian’s lead.
Cruising, like all leisure travel, is a discretionary activity. Resumption of normal inbound/ outbound international travel is one of the big pieces in the economic recovery puzzle and one that the US does not control.
That law requiring at least one foreign stop should have been abolished, even before this corona nonsense. Do people have any idea how popular a pure east coast or west coast cruise would be? Instead that law requires the ship to go all the way out to the Bahamas or Bermuda, or to Canada or Mexico on the west coast. So a route from LA to San Francisco will never work even without corona. Would a foreign flagged ship mean that US labor laws wouldn't entirely apply? Maybe, but how many more US residents would be able to get a job on these ships? How many smaller coastal ports would this open up that currently can't host a huge trans-oceanic vessel?
Regardless, I wonder if the ship docking but not embarking/disembarking anyone would fulfill the requirements of the law. Or have a pro forma one "passenger" that walks on or off the ship with whatever requirements. Seriously, just have someone from the local port reach their gloved, disinfected hand onto the ship from the gangplank for one second.
That law requiring at least one foreign stop should have been abolished, even before this corona nonsense. Do people have any idea how popular a pure east coast or west coast cruise would be? Instead that law requires the ship to go all the way out to the Bahamas or Bermuda, or to Canada or Mexico on the west coast. So a route from LA to San Francisco will never work even without corona. Would a foreign flagged ship mean that US labor laws wouldn't entirely apply? Maybe, but how many more US residents would be able to get a job on these ships? How many smaller coastal ports would this open up that currently can't host a huge trans-oceanic vessel?
Regardless, I wonder if the ship docking but not embarking/disembarking anyone would fulfill the requirements of the law. Or have a pro forma one "passenger" that walks on or off the ship with whatever requirements. Seriously, just have someone from the local port reach their gloved, disinfected hand onto the ship from the gangplank for one second.
Nothing prevents a US- flagged ship from offering cruises between US ports without a call at a foreign port.
Norwegian Cruise Lines ( NCL) created a subsidiary of US- flagged ships to sail the Hawaiian islands without obligatory 4 day round trip to a foreign island. As a US- flagged ship, it can only hire those legally able to work in the US. Income and Payroll taxes apply as do US labor laws.
The state of Hawaii does not allow gaming and this includes onboard gaming in Hawaii waters, so revenue potential is limited and fares are substantially higher than for comparable Caribbean cruises. Than there’s the schlep to/ from the mainland.
NCL overestimated demand and reduced capacity to a single ship.
If there was a sense of adequate demand for US intineraries there is no question there would be more US- flagged cruise lines. Pearly Sea Cruises does a nice sail on the Great Lakes, in season. How many people are willing to spend $2500-5000 per person to cruise the Great Lakes for 7 nights?
The Federal Government shut down all cruising from/ to US ports, more than a year ago. .... Eventually, Trump had to intervene.
Trump refused to let cruise ships port in the USA because he didn't want their Covid positives to count toward the total numbers in the USA, even though all passengers were going to be isolated immediately.
Trump refused to let cruise ships port in the USA because he didn't want their Covid positives to count toward the total numbers in the USA, even though all passengers were going to be isolated immediately.
No DeSantis is not suing the federal government -- he's suing tax payers. But you go and celebrate all that.
OK, I will go ahead and celebrate it. Not that he's suing the tax payers, but that he's suing the federal government that is arbitrarily and unfairly singling out a single segment of the tourism industry for punitive treatment.
The missing piece is that cruise ships have nowhere to go because of global travel restrictions. A 100 + year old Federal law, requires foreign - flagged ships to make at least one port call in a foreign country, when traveling between US ports.
Most cruises sailing from Florida ports visit Caribbean nation ports. Most of these island nations have strict Covid entry requirements and quarantines. No two countries have the same requirements. As much as they need tourism revenues, they do not have the infrastructure to address the risk of a Covid surge that tens of thousands, of daily, mostly US tourists could introduce.
That law should be abolished. Or, at the very least, it should be suspended on an emergency basis. What's the emergency? For one, the multi-million dollar hit that the State of Alaska will suffer due to losing their cruise season for the second year in a row. We can't help it if Canada closes its ports. But if that law were to be suspended, the ships could sail from Seattle to Alaska and never have to touch a Canadian port.
Or, failing that, I like Matt's idea:
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattCW
Regardless, I wonder if the ship docking but not embarking/disembarking anyone would fulfill the requirements of the law. Or have a pro forma one "passenger" that walks on or off the ship with whatever requirements. Seriously, just have someone from the local port reach their gloved, disinfected hand onto the ship from the gangplank for one second.
I don't actually know the specifics of the law. So the ship has to dock in a foreign port. Does that just mean that the ship ties up at the port and then unties and goes away? Do passengers have to disembark there, and if so, how many? It would be interesting to know exactly what the law requires, so maybe the letter of it could be satisfied without the undue hardship that it causes in real life.
But, MAM, keep in mind that the cruise lines have private islands in the Bahamas that are, legally speaking, Bahamian soil. A ship could dock there and satisfy the law, while still keeping the passengers away from the local citizens (except for those who work on the islands).
No DeSantis is not suing the federal government -- he's suing tax payers. But you go and celebrate all that.
On the bright side, he has a lonnnnng way to go before he puts a dent into the $40m+ that the Dems wasted the last 4+ years.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
