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Reopening while there is still a significant amount of circulating virus is a Very. Bad. Idea.
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It is rational if you understand that there is still a lot of virus circulating and the vaccines do not provide 100% protection - and the small percentage that are not protected do not know they aren't.
SC is open and no more mask mandate. The big box still have the mask signs on the door but don't say anything if you don't have a mask on based on local mandates.
The mom and pops though are now mostly maskless. The restaurant I go to is no more masks, the salt/pepper/sugar containers are back on the table.
And...we got no spike from the Spring Break vacationers.
My city is going to start up their weekly concert on the beach starting in June.
Good leadership errs on the side of caution that saves lives. I can where a mask until this is over. A minor inconvenience is nothing when compared to saving lives.
Good leadership means maximizing the aggregate flourishing of the human condition, which includes quality of life as well as raw numbers of lives saved. If the only or even the ultimate consideration were "saving lives", then we'd never fight wars. Instead of fighting, nations would roll over and surrender, and never avenge a wrong. Really? How many governments, that have any sense of national honor, would condone such a thing?
If "saving lives" were the ultimate objective, we'd systematically eschew any risky venture. We'd have no motorsports (drivers can get killed), no space programs (rockets can explode) and so on. Explorers would have never sailed around the world, and mountaineers would never commence the slightest climb.
Instead, to be human means to weigh the risks and the rewards. Occasionally that means sacrificing lives. And yes, occasionally that means deliberately taking lives. Good leadership means the making of difficult choices. Sometimes those choices mean a loss of life.
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Originally Posted by jbgusa
So life imprisonment?
Our friends on the life-at-all-cost side seem to forget, that life is fraught, uncertain and occasionally unpleasant. Let's not make it even more so! Beyond some threshold of discomfort, why bother?
I am wholeheartedly a supporter of vaccines (but not of surveillance or tracking of who received them... that's a separate thread). Still, it is likely the case, that this pandemic will only end, when the mass of regular people come to a realization, that rather than to continue living as they've been forced to live for the past year, they're rather not live at all.
In other words, in the choice between capital punishment and life in prison, I'd rather be shot tomorrow at dawn.
No, just do what needs to be done to squeeze the amount of circulating virus down to the point where if you are in a small group of people there is not as significant risk that someone in the group is infected with it.
Right now there is a 6% risk that at least one person in a group of 20 has the virus in my county. Take it to 50 and it is 24%.
Dr Faustus turned quack almost right out of the gate. What an ass hat, but he is laughing all the way to the bank. Which you can clearly see, since the shameless hypocrite takes off his mask whenever he thinks the cameras aren’t rolling.
Can we ever have a rational discussion without hyperbole.
I am happy to if people who favor endless lockdowns would be honest. When they say that the "forever" times are hand washing, fine. When they add "where masks" or "socially distance" those flatly cannot be forever. Social distancing entails limitations on business operations and entertainment. Masking involves those two as well as dehumanizing society. Masking and social distancing are good as quasi-emergency measures but cannot be the way we operate. Which leads me to the response to "ohio_peasant" below.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohio_peasant
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa
So life imprisonment?
Our friends on the life-at-all-cost side seem to forget, that life is fraught, uncertain and occasionally unpleasant. Let's not make it even more so! Beyond some threshold of discomfort, why bother?
I am wholeheartedly a supporter of vaccines (but not of surveillance or tracking of who received them... that's a separate thread). Still, it is likely the case, that this pandemic will only end, when the mass of regular people come to a realization, that rather than to continue living as they've been forced to live for the past year, they're rather not live at all.
In other words, in the choice between capital punishment and life in prison, I'd rather be shot tomorrow at dawn.
I totally agree. What does, for example, making outdoor activities either unavailable or depressing have to do with "helping to end this pandemic"?
I'll give you two examples. My father-in-law died on January 27. By Jewish tradition burial should occur promptly. I told the "bereavement coordinator", who I normally respect, that my sister-in-law, my wife's identical twin sister, was arriving from California the next day. That was a big mistake. They offered us a Sunday funeral, after a negative Covid test for my sister-in-law, or offered that my sister-in-law could "attend" by watching from her car. Mind you, this was a graveside funeral, scheduled for a day with forecast temperatures in the teens with a strong wind. She could have been positioned downwind from everyone. Now who was "everyone"? Well, myself, my wife, my sister-in-law, my 24 and 23 year old sons, the Rabbi, the widow, and the widow's caregiver. How was desecrating the funeral helpful in "stopping the spread of Covid"? It was frankly a mindless application of overly strict rules. They could have allowed her to stand 20 feet, rather than six feet away, and downwind.
Another example. One warm afternoon last March, after the lockdowns started, the outdoor tennis courts were all being played. I thought that was great, since both running and tennis are conducted more than six feet apart, and very rarely played by Covid-19 sufferers. The next day our village's mayor had the courts locked and the basketball hoops at neighborhood courts removed. Things admittedly "improved" in May, with a partial "reopening." At the courts where I play outdoor tennis one can arrive no more than ten minutes before a game and must leave promptly. Also no locker room use besides the bathroom, and then one at a time.
These are the kind of "prolonged" (I probably should have used the word "mindless" instead) restrictions that continue to enervate life.
I am happy to if people who favor endless lockdowns would be honest. When they say that the "forever" times are hand washing, fine. When they add "where masks" or "socially distance" those flatly cannot be forever. Social distancing entails limitations on business operations and entertainment. Masking involves those two as well as dehumanizing society. Masking and social distancing are good as quasi-emergency measures but cannot be the way we operate. Which leads me to the response to "ohio_peasant" below.
I totally agree. What does, for example, making outdoor activities either unavailable or depressing have to do with "helping to end this pandemic"?
What exactly is your definition of a lockdown or life imprisonment, most places sporting events, schools and businesses are open so yes making those claims are over the top. What state do you live in where you are locked down certainly not NY.
I don't see masks as a big deal and they will likely go away this year as more are vaccinated. The largest issue we have now in addition to the variants is the resistance to the vaccine.
What exactly is your definition of a lockdown or life imprisonment, most places sporting events, schools and businesses are open so yes making those claims are over the top. What state do you live in where you are locked down certainly not NY.
I don't see masks as a big deal and they will likely go away this year as more are vaccinated. The largest issue we have now in addition to the variants is the resistance to the vaccine.
Agree, time to ditch the mandated masks for vaccinated folks and that will encourage more folks to get vaccinated. No sense making a mountain out of a molehill.
Beyond that, I guess vaccinated folks can continue to mask or wear gloves shopping (or both) forever if that is what they want. Probably offers some protection v a whole host of viruses. Personal choice.
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