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THIS. You actually get it. This is what I've been trying to get people to think about. This is why I take places case by case. Atlanta and St. Louis are roughly similar in demographics, but vastly different.
I've never heard someone say they're moving to St. Louis that was black. Atlanta is a different story. I think it's actually too many black people that live there or want to move there.
I've never heard someone say they're moving to St. Louis that was black. Atlanta is a different story. I think it's actually too many black people that live there or want to move there.
Too many Black? Excuse me?
Now, I don't think Atlanta is THE GREATEST, but I understand why many people (Blacks included) want to move there. And yes, I have never heard anyone say they want to move to St. Louis. In fact, many Black people from St. Louis leave St. Louis for Atlanta. I speak as someone who used to live in the Atlanta area.
Not sure why this is surprising. The intention was to create an underclass. There is a minority residing in these cities who became that underclass. It took hundreds of years to get to this. It will likely take much time for them to move out of it.
Not sure why this is surprising. The intention was to create an underclass. There is a minority residing in these cities who became that underclass. It took hundreds of years to get to this. It will likely take much time for them to move out of it.
The way I see, the whole idea in the beginning was to exclude people. Part of it could have been to create an underclass. Another part was to keep Blacks away from the rest of society due to Blacks being unwanted, and an underclass grew from that.
Combination of shrinking populations and economic opportunities combined with decades of ignoring the need for jobs and opportunities within cities themselves.
Remember the only reason many of these cities are "Black run" is that everyone that could afford to move did so which only left those too poor to relocate. Tax base disappeared, jobs went overseas, and areas, where low-income folk lived, became areas of desperation the few jobs that were available vanished became more destitute. We all watched it happen, It no mystery to anyone that lived through the 80's and watched these cities fall apart. And those wonderful suburbs outside city limits didn't build themselves and now even those are being vacated.
No one cared when these cities were considered thriving yet excluded entire portions of their city from the economic boom that occurred during the 1950's - 1980's.Everyone that has visited Cleavland, Detroit, Chicago, St. Louis, Baltimore, Memphis can clearly see the line across those cities where development stopped and was discouraged versus where it was allowed to flourish. That was a policy by powers that be at the time (Was not Black folk in charge) which left those areas impoverished and without opportunity. Now fast forward to the 1990s on and the continued decline of those cities due to changing economic forces just multiplied the problem the cities themselves created. The worst part is those that were in charge (White folk that ran the cities into the ground) now act as if no one saw it coming.
Most of these industrial-based cities are just shells of their former selves and have been left behind. What solution is there for a city with a shrinking economy, population, and tax base?
This is true.
It isn't like Black people went to these cities, founded them, and said "this is going to be a Black city ran by Black people". Those cities are Black ran because of who is left behind. Alot of cities were industrial powerhouses in earlier times.
One thing many people don't think about is this: Before the Great Migration, 9 out of 10 Blacks lived in the South, and a majority didn't live in cities. Blacks are relative late-comers to the large cities. Black street gangs are also relative late-comers. During the Great Migration, Blacks went from a rural-living population to living in the cities, rather rapidly. They went to the industrial cities for the jobs and to get away from the oppressive Jim Crow regime of the South. Blacks ended up encountering discrimination (in the form of housing discrimination, issues with jobs, etc). Things weren't that much better.
When those cities had thriving economies, alot of Blacks could only get housing in certain neighborhoods. The Black neighborhoods were not treated the same as everywhere else in most cities. This was the case regardless of Democrats or Republicans running the cities.
One result of housing discrimination meant that you could have middle class Blacks living amongst the underclass. My father's neighborhood in Milwaukee was like this. There were definitely middle class people in his neighborhood. However, there were some rough elements too. As soon as the Black middle class could leave (when housing discrimination was declared illegal), they did. As those who could leave did, those who couldn't were left to the worst elements, left to the crime and decline.
The changes within America's industrial machine revealed how underserved many areas were. Areas that were marginal before, became really bad after. In Chicago, the mafia had been there for ages. Black street gangs in Chicago are relatively recent. The most violent Black street gangs of today were formed in the 1950s. The thing about the ghettos, alot of people could ignore what went on there. It wasn't until Black people started rioting (as oppose to White people) that many people started paying attention. There was a relatively high proportion of crime in Black neighborhoods. It's always been that way. Black on Black murder is nothing new. As long as it was "on the other side of the tracks" and Black people stayed on the other side of the tracks, few people cared. When riots started taking place, when crime went to other parts of the city amid the industrial decline, then people started talking.
Glad my country of the descent and most other islands are not on the list.
Quote:
Originally Posted by warhorse78
Probably same reason so many Black run countries are in the same boat. It all comes down to corruption. And they use gang/militia war tactics to get the upper hand on things, not the softer approach of corruption White leaders use like religious factions.
Yet most of those black nations aren’t on the list.
Very few countries in the world have such easy access to high powered guns for regular civilians. Nah, that can't be a reason for the very high gun violence here and in Mexico (where you can also get guns easily smuggled down). Nope, let's blame black people for being such large consumers of those guns.
Why do these largely Black populated and Black run cities have these problems? Is it the policies they put in place? Is there too much big government or too little government in these cities?
Since OP is apparently fixated on this topic and an expert at pointing these statistics out regardless of their relevance or comparability, I suggest that he should go to St. Louis on a fact finding mission and report back.
I was born and raised in St. Louis and have close relatives and in-laws living there and visit every couple years. They (or I) have not had any bad experience, have not been shot at, stabbed, assaulted, or robbed. I also lived for 37 years in rural Missouri, in Jefferson City - state capital, and watched the state spiral into a cesspool of right-wing, extremist and racist Republican politics. Any effort to initiate relevant reforms in the major urban cities that require state laws or financing is generally blocked or diminished in the state legislature and Governor's office.
I am assuming that the statistics cited in this thread are for the City of St. Louis and not the metro area. The city is quite small in relation to its metro area and there are and have been difficulties in the suburban municipalities that contribute to the city's crime rate -- and vice versa. I lived in and around Ferguson and several other municipalities and can attest to that fact.
Missouri was once considered to be a bellwether state concerning national politics. That notion has been dismissed for a couple decades but it may serve as a bellwether regarding the rabid urban-rural divide that is deepening all across the country. The legislature's actions repealing the permit-to-purchase and gun background check laws has increased gun violence. The legislature recently passed, and the Governor signed, a law that "invalidates" all federal gun control laws — and prohibits state and local cooperation with enforcement of those federal laws. If allowed to stand, it will only increase the already high rate of gun violence.
"All you have to do is get rid of the police and they will be instantly better"
- Rich White progressive in Manhattan doorman building
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