Can we agree that a massive influx of immigrants, legal or otherwise, will destabilize the social fabric of America? (Clinton, Canada)
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Just the same as we can see how people are being driven out of their countries. Add to that scenario, politicians, government and local law enforcement getting kick backs from the gangs. Business owners forced to pay a protective tax and there's no one to turn to for help with that. People will lose, from limbs to family members if they don't fork over their cash. If you do not have time to fill out some legal paperwork, what are you going to do?
What generation? It makes a difference. Life experiences are going to make a difference many times, in where sympathies lay. There will be those that will reach out and try to make connections with those coming across the boarder, because they understand their situations and you will have others that will turn their backs on 'em. That division among people is not new.
What nonsense! Most of these migrants aren't under the threat of violence or extortion. They are coming here for economic opportunity on the backs of the U.S. taxpayer/worker. There are plenty of safe places to take refuge in without trekking all the way up to the U.S. border. To claim so is to say that every country south of our border doesn't have one safe place within them. You know damned well that's not true! Quit making excuses for these invaders! They want our tax dollars, jobs and resources it's really that simple.
You do know that the only viable asylum claim in our country is persecution because of one's political, social or religious beliefs or sexual orientation, don't you? How many of these migrants fit that bill? Next to none and you know it!
You don't like it when someone appears to be keeping a secret, even if they aren't --- we get it.
I wasn't speaking of myself. No one would have reason to talk about me behind my back. These are the sentiments of many people though when others whisper around them. I couldn't care less about what's going on in the lives of Jose and Maria.
Not how it happened in Hawaii. Haoles settled here illegally with no intentions of assimilating or learning the language. Quite the opposite. Shouldn't have been hard to do living with Hawaiian culture and language day to day and on a permanent and extended basis, right? I'm sure you agree.
“ haole ”—a derogatory Hawaiian term for white people. Who are these white people who settled in Hawaii "illegally"? I have no idea what you are talking about. Every migrant should learn and speak the language of the area/country they migrated to. I'm not making any exceptions for white people either. I just know what I would do if I migrated somewhere else where their native language wasn't mine. Out of respect I would learn and speak their language.
English is not just a working language in this country as that poster claimed it's our national de facto language and spoken by the majority of Americans. All others are minority, foreign languages. No one is saying that people can't speak a foreign language in our country just learn English also and speak it when possible. It's a part of the assimilation process.
Like I said you lived in a heck of an area. Sounds like you lived in a poor crime ridden area. And it sounds like a drug house. Whether those people were illegal or not doing the gang activity would not be easy to figure out as a neighbor. Those drug houses are usually a mix of US citizens and illegals. There would be obvious reasons why it would not be all illegals. I am sure you can figure that out.
Wow you are all over the map. And sure people move out of high crime areas like you eventually did. Its the crime and lack of safety that gets people to move. And that situation is caused by a cross section of people most of whom are not illegals. And to assume the bad people are illegals and the good people are not. Just total ignorance and not the real world. Yes there are bad hombres as Trump said who are illegals. But that is a very small percentage of those folks.
She came here for her kids. She worked hard to put food on the table. I know her example of being just a hard working mom who cares for her kids first and your talking points that all illegals are either rapists, drive by shooters or serial litterers is obviously false. In reality most are just like her which is why I mentioned her. Yes people should not be here illegally. That is easy to say but the solutions are not. If you want to clean up the situation put long prison sentences for any employer who hires one and long prison sentences for any illegal caught working illegally. Problem is the GOP does not want to crack down on the employers and the Dems don't want to crack down on the illegals. So 8 years of Obama and nothing got done. 4 years of Trump and nothing got done. You don't need a wall if there are not jobs here. They will stop coming and or self deport.
That is a very ignorant statement. In many cases illegals are family members, co workers, neighbors or acquaintances to legal immigrants. Not always but its quite common. I know countless hispanic immigrants. Most I know are sympathetic to the situation illegals are in. To make a blanket statement that all Hispanics here legally want nothing to do with illegal aliens is not at all true. The real world is not sound bites you heard elsewhere and simply repeat.
Quote you: "She came here for her kids. She worked hard to put food on the table. I know her example of being just a hard working mom who cares for her kids first and your talking points that all illegals are either rapists, drive by shooters or serial litterers is obviously false".
Americans have kids to feed to and when illegals take their jobs they can't do it but I guess they don't matter to you only foreign law breaker's kids do?
When did BOZ say that all illegals are rapists, drive by shooter, etc.? Making stuff up now?
By the way, the wall isn't just to stop those looking for work. It's to keep out drug runners, criminals and would be terrorists to and the 450 miles that Trump built did just that by a 90% reduction rate in those areas. Unless we deny these illegals birthright citizenship for their kids and benefits they will still come even if the job magnet dries up, thus the wall!
One thing I agree with you on is that a large number of Hispanic immigrants and citizens do sympathize with these illegals and are demanding amnesty for them and virtual open borders for more of their ethnic group to get into our country. It's a selfish, racist tribal mentality that trumps our immigration laws. I know, I live in the thick of it here in So. Calif. I know what their sentiments are and that's why I have little use for them.
Like I said you lived in a heck of an area. Sounds like you lived in a poor crime ridden area. And it sounds like a drug house. Whether those people were illegal or not doing the gang activity would not be easy to figure out as a neighbor. Those drug houses are usually a mix of US citizens and illegals. There would be obvious reasons why it would not be all illegals. I am sure you can figure that out.
Wow you are all over the map. And sure people move out of high crime areas like you eventually did. Its the crime and lack of safety that gets people to move. And that situation is caused by a cross section of people most of whom are not illegals. And to assume the bad people are illegals and the good people are not. Just total ignorance and not the real world. Yes there are bad hombres as Trump said who are illegals. But that is a very small percentage of those folks.
She came here for her kids. She worked hard to put food on the table. I know her example of being just a hard working mom who cares for her kids first and your talking points that all illegals are either rapists, drive by shooters or serial litterers is obviously false. In reality most are just like her which is why I mentioned her. Yes people should not be here illegally. That is easy to say but the solutions are not. If you want to clean up the situation put long prison sentences for any employer who hires one and long prison sentences for any illegal caught working illegally. Problem is the GOP does not want to crack down on the employers and the Dems don't want to crack down on the illegals. So 8 years of Obama and nothing got done. 4 years of Trump and nothing got done. You don't need a wall if there are not jobs here. They will stop coming and or self deport.
That is a very ignorant statement. In many cases illegals are family members, co workers, neighbors or acquaintances to legal immigrants. Not always but its quite common. I know countless hispanic immigrants. Most I know are sympathetic to the situation illegals are in. To make a blanket statement that all Hispanics here legally want nothing to do with illegal aliens is not at all true. The real world is not sound bites you heard elsewhere and simply repeat.
My area wasn't "crime ridden" until illegal aliens destroyed it. When we moved there, never would I have ever thought I would see gang graffiti. Nor did I ever think that our schools and overall community would be destroyed.
It's ignorant to assume that all flophouses are drug houses. BTW, did you even figure out how easy it is to spot a flophouse filled with illegal aliens? I doubt it. First, you tried to say that the flophouses were safe houses. Then you tried to say they were drug houses. Oh...while we're on this topic --- brothels were discovered where all the "workers" were illegal aliens who cater to other illegal aliens. One house was raided twice. After the second raid, there was a fire. Thankfully, the place was torn down. You really, really have no clue.
Your lack of knowledge of this issue is simply astounding. Or are you just trying to yank my chain? Which is it?
There is no such thing as a "good illegal". That, like the terms "honest illegal alien" or "law-abiding" illegal are all oxymorons.
The crime and the lack of safety was due to illegal immigration. Stop trying to pretend otherwise.
Stop trying to defend that illegal alien. She had no business being here once she was out of status. Stop insulting those who come here in accordance with our immigration laws. No one wants to hear her sob story.
It's not "an ignorant statement". Those who came here legally don't want to associate with illegal aliens. The neighbors I told you about, they were educated people who disliked those who made no effort to learn English. It's ignorant of you to assume such people don't exist. I've met enough of them to know your assumptions are so very wrong.
So...you assume that anyone of Hispanic descent sympathizes with illegal aliens? You don't speak for me.
If any Hispanics support illegal aliens, they are aiding and abetting illegal behavior. Basically, they lack a moral compass. If they are here legally, and encourage their relatives to come here illegally, then they are not good people. In my non-Hispanic family, we had a long lost relative who came to the US to study. He was from a country that was once behind the Iron Curtain. Of course, after studying here, he wanted to immigrate. However, none of us could help him. So, he asked the family patriarch to send him and his family round trip tickets to the US. His plan was to come here and just never leave. Well...none of us in the family would do that. We all knew it was wrong and illegal, and let him know that. Thus, I have no respect for anyone who would aid and abet illegal behavior.
Now, I'm done with you and your insults and erroneous assumptions. Feel free to talk to yourself. Buh bye!
Quote you: "She came here for her kids. She worked hard to put food on the table. I know her example of being just a hard working mom who cares for her kids first and your talking points that all illegals are either rapists, drive by shooters or serial litterers is obviously false".
Americans have kids to feed to and when illegals take their jobs they can't do it but I guess they don't matter to you only foreign law breaker's kids do?
Look. I am not saying I support her being here only explaining why. And if you are talking economics her being here does not cause an American to go hungry. The "pie" that is divided up among all the people can expand. The fact she is here and spending money creates more jobs when you add her to others like her. That is one purpose of legal immigration. They help create a larger economy and more jobs. And a illegal person has the same effect. There are always jobs to be filled. We are never at the point where there is only one job left to fill. I get not wanting people to come here the wrong way and skip ahead of others.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory
When did BOZ say that all illegals are rapists, drive by shooter, etc.? Making stuff up now?
Only examples of illegals BOZ used were a drive by shooter, illegals who litter and women who were scared of being raped by illegals. No other examples. BOZ said illegals caused all the problems where they lived and everyone legal did not. I don't believe that for a second. In fact right above they say there is no such thing as a good illegal. Things are not that black and white. Just because someone decides to stay here because it benefits their kids does not make them a bad person. For me one example of bad people are Americans milking unemployment instead of going back to work. She can't do that so she works 60 hours a week no doubt picking up work that Americans should be doing but refuse because you and I are paying them to sit at home.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory
By the way, the wall isn't just to stop those looking for work. It's to keep out drug runners, criminals and would be terrorists to and the 450 miles that Trump built did just that by a 90% reduction rate in those areas. Unless we deny these illegals birthright citizenship for their kids and benefits they will still come even if the job magnet dries up, thus the wall!
I have no problem with the wall. My problem is it was never completed. Sure where the wall is it cut down on crossings. They simply go where there is no wall. The anchor babies are a problem. But that is not going to change anytime soon. Border patrol often deny pregnant women from crossing over. Obviously not well enough. First order of business would be to making employing illegals something no business would mess with. Second stiff penalties for illegals caught working. But neither party will agree on those two things. So no complete wall and no real penalties for employing them. I agree that illegal drugs and terrorists can get in without a wall. But here we are in a country where the two sides are very far apart. And America suffers because of that. Trump got elected by being divisive and combative towards the Democrats and the RINO GOP. And that handicapped him in getting Obamacare repealed and the money for the wall, etc. Perhaps someday there will be a Republican who can shore up the GOP base without making it impossible to get anything done. Reagan perhaps was the last one to do that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory
One thing I agree with you on is that a large number of Hispanic immigrants and citizens do sympathize with these illegals and are demanding amnesty for them and virtual open borders for more of their ethnic group to get into our country. It's a selfish, racist tribal mentality that trumps our immigration laws. I know, I live in the thick of it here in So. Calif. I know what their sentiments are and that's why I have little use for them.
They look at this differently. Part of it is Telemundo and Univision which paint a very sympathetic picture of illegals. I remember during the 2016 election Telemundo did a story about Trump voters. I watched it with my ex. I speak Spanish. So they interview 3 or 4 people who were voting for Trump. They all were either very racist and hated Mexicans or they had a 4th grade education. You think the MSM in English is biased. But I am sure it was effective in getting their incorrect point across.
Other part is lots of legal hispanics know ones here illegally. And they get that most are not bad people and often have a real connection to them.
The GOP needs to get where they are coming from and counter it in the right way. Not pretend that they do not exist.
Last edited by Oklazona Bound; 06-10-2021 at 08:50 PM..
Look. I am not saying I support her being here only explaining why. And if you are talking economics her being here does not cause an American to go hungry. The "pie" that is divided up among all the people can expand. The fact she is here and spending money creates more jobs when you add her to others like her. That is one purpose of legal immigration. They help create a larger economy and more jobs. And a illegal person has the same effect. There are always jobs to be filled. We are never at the point where there is only one job left to fill. I get not wanting people to come here the wrong way and skip ahead of others.
Only examples of illegals BOZ used were a drive by shooter, illegals who litter and women who were scared of being raped by illegals. No other examples. BOZ said illegals caused all the problems where they lived and everyone legal did not. I don't believe that for a second. In fact right above they say there is no such thing as a good illegal. Things are not that black and white. Just because someone decides to stay here because it benefits their kids does not make them a bad person. For me one example of bad people are Americans milking unemployment instead of going back to work. She can't do that so she works 60 hours a week no doubt picking up work that Americans should be doing but refuse because you and I are paying them to sit at home.
I have no problem with the wall. My problem is it was never completed. Sure where the wall is it cut down on crossings. They simply go where there is no wall. The anchor babies are a problem. But that is not going to change anytime soon. Border patrol often deny pregnant women from crossing over. Obviously not well enough. First order of business would be to making employing illegals something no business would mess with. Second stiff penalties for illegals caught working. But neither party will agree on those two things. So no complete wall and no real penalties for employing them. I agree that illegal drugs and terrorists can get in without a wall. But here we are in a country where the two sides are very far apart. And America suffers because of that. Trump got elected by being divisive and combative towards the Democrats and the RINO GOP. And that handicapped him in getting Obamacare repealed and the money for the wall, etc. Perhaps someday there will be a Republican who can shore up the GOP base without making it impossible to get anything done. Reagan perhaps was the last one to do that.
They look at this differently. Part of it is Telemundo and Univision which paint a very sympathetic picture of illegals. I remember during the 2016 election Telemundo did a story about Trump voters. I watched it with my ex. I speak Spanish. So they interview 3 or 4 people who were voting for Trump. They all were either very racist and hated Mexicans or they had a 4th grade education. You think the MSM in English is biased. But I am sure it was effective in getting their incorrect point across.
Other part is lots of legal hispanics know ones here illegally. And they get that most are not bad people and often have a real connection to them.
The GOP needs to get where they are coming from and counter it in the right way. Not pretend that they do not exist.
So an illegal alien holding an American job doesn't deny that job to an American? How so? Illegals who never had a visa but jumped our border instead have taken good blue-collared jobs from American by working for less. How can you deny that? Illegals send billions out of our country back to their homelands not spent in our economy. Even with taxes they do pay they still cost us over $100 billion a year! Illegals do not create jobs for Americans who do you think you are kidding?
You accused BOZ of saying that "all" illegals are rapists, etc. She did not say that so stop back peddling now. There is no such thing as a good illegal if they were they wouldn't have violated our immigration laws, used fake or stolen ID's to work and/or committed tax evasion by working for cash. By remaining here to supposedly feed their kids they are taking a job that should have gone to an American to feed their kids and increased their taxes and a lot of other negatives that go along with illegal immigration. Why do you keep bringing up a minority of lazy Americans to justify the presence of these illegal lawbreakers? Most Americans are not lazy so your point is moot. Even the lazy ones at least have a right to be in this country but illegals don't!
The wall wasn't completed because Biden stopped it so what point are you trying to make here? Again, it's the Democrats that won't pass an e-verify bill to stop the employers and to deter illegals from coming here for that purpose so your anger should be directed at them soley! Trump reinstated the workplace raids that Obama discontinued. There were numerous employers caught under his administration and were held accountable. I have posted the links many times already. No, Trump couldn't the money for the wall from the Democrats in congress because they wanted amnesty in exchange for it and they would only give him a mere pittance of what was needed. So again, it was on the Democrats! Trump still managed to get some monies from the Defense fund and was able to use it to complete half of the wall.
3 or 4 people? lol. Most Trump supporters do not hate Mexicans and aren't racists nor do they have a 4th grade education. They merely object to Mexicans and anyone else who is here illegally and rightly so!
Thanks for proving my point about a large number of Hispanics. They think their illegal amigos should be above our immigration laws and rewarded for breaking them. It's a tribal mentality that is self serving and racist. Yeah, they have a connection alright! Being otherwise "nice" does not justify anyone for getting a pass on any of our laws!
The GOP pretends that what doesn't exist? They won't pass another amnesty and rightly so! They are wiling to pass an e-verify law, internally and at the border to enforce our immigration laws, do away with sanctuary cities, end birthright citizenship for their kids and benefits and to finish the wall but the Democrats have and will continue to fight them all the way so none of this gets done which would end illegal immigration as we know it. Again, look to the Democrats for the mess we are in and the chaos at our border today is on Biden.
The wall wasn't completed because Biden stopped it so what point are you trying to make here? Again, it's the Democrats that won't pass an e-verify bill to stop the employers and to deter illegals from coming here for that purpose so your anger should be directed at them soley! Trump reinstated the workplace raids that Obama discontinued. There were numerous employers caught under his administration and were held accountable. I have posted the links many times already. No, Trump couldn't the money for the wall from the Democrats in congress because they wanted amnesty in exchange for it and they would only give him a mere pittance of what was needed. So again, it was on the Democrats! Trump still managed to get some monies from the Defense fund and was able to use it to complete half of the wall.
Of course the Dems winning the election stopped the wall. Trump had 4 years to get it done. There needs to be federal law that puts employers in prison as well as illegals. Half the wall does nothing. E-verify is good but the dems do not like it. You need sanctions against businesses who hire illegals but the GOP is against that.
Part of politics is compromise. Biden is bad at it. So was Obama and so was Trump. You cannot just say the other side is horrible then get their cooperation. Reagan and to a lesser extent Clinton got this. Since then both parties have not.
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