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You know, a lot of people believe that the issue of impressment was merely used as a justification for the United States to seize Canada while Britain was busy fighting Napoleon in Europe.
You've managed to butcher W.E.B. Du Bois as much, or more than, you've butchered Adam Smith.
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No. People do not go to war for abstract theories of government. They fight for property and privilege and that was what Virginia fought for in the Civil War. And Lee followed Virginia. He followed Virginia not because he particularly loved slavery (although he certainly did not hate it), but because he did not have the moral courage to stand against his family and his clan. Lee hesitated and hung his head in shame because he was asked to lead armies against human progress and Christian decency and did not dare refuse. He surrendered not to Grant, but to Negro Emancipation.
Today we can best perpetuate his memory and his nobler traits not by falsifying his moral debacle, but by explaining it to the young white south. What Lee did in 1861, other Lees are doing in 1928. They lack the moral courage to stand up for justice to the Negro because of the overwhelming public opinion of their social environment. Their fathers in the past have condoned lynching and mob violence, just as today they acquiesce in the disfranchisement of educated and worthy black citizens, provide wretchedly inadequate public schools for Negro children and endorse a public treatment of sickness, poverty and crime which disgraces civilization.
W.E.B. DuBois on Robert E. Lee’s legacy published in 1928. Source: The Crisis, March 1928
Giving African Americans your ass to kiss over abolition is flat out insulting and isn’t EVER have the result that you seek. We aren’t all Larry Elder or Candace Owens. No smooches. Sorry.
Since when did I ask or even suggest that anyone needs to kiss my ass for any reason? My whole point is that none of it has anything to do with me. I didn't enslave anyone. I wasn't alive during Jim Crow segregation. So if somebody wants to indoctrinate me or my children to hate ourselves for this nonsensical "original sin" of whiteness, they can go f--k themselves.
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The United States didn’t pioneer the abolition of slavery. Furthermore, the fact that the United States abolished slavery that it had basically institutionalized is laughable. There are no brownie points for that. Who else was supposed to abolish slavery in this country? The Danish or the Swiss? Get real here.
Vermont abolishes slavery in 1777. You find me any example of anyone doing it with real finality sooner and you might have a point. There have been many times where slavery was condemned on a limited basis. Christians banning the enslavement of Christians. Muslims banning the enslavement of Muslims. That kind of thing. But Vermont is the earliest instance I can find where slavery is completely and unconditionally banned. If you know of something earlier, by all means tell us all about it!
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The racial environment presently in this country may give you lots of frustration, but it is what it is and whites as well as blacks played a huge role in it. This isn’t to say that whites should face perpetual finger pointing and ridicule for what happened, but the vestiges of slavery and Jim Crow are still with us and will be with us for many decades to come. Our brutally racist history is in the nation’s DNA, and will remain to be a matter of debate for our lifetime and our grandchildren’s lifetimes.
We just have to face up to it.
The idea of enslaving a group of people that looks different? Not something that the USA, Western Europe or white people came up with. That's been going on since before recorded history. Nation/Group A conquers Nation/Group B and makes slaves out of a large portion of Nation/Group B. Sometimes the conquerors keep the slaves. Sometimes they sell them to somebody else. And whether it was Sub-Saharan Africans, North Africans, Chinese, Mongols, Persians, Babylonians, Egyptians, Greeks, Romans or whoever else, pretty much everyone played the whole, "That group of people who look different. That's how you know they are the slaves." game. The Muslims did the crap out of that one. Largest most brutal slave culture in human history and there's still loads of slaves in the Muslim world right now, but for some reason nobody seems to care. All of the above were brutal a-holes about it. All of the above were extremely racist -- but often drew the lines between races differently than you or I would. But for some idiot reason, only white European people are ever given any grief about any of it. Pardon me if that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
I wasn't raised to believe that the color of person's skin told me anything useful about them, so I will always rebel against the suggestion that, "Because that guy has darker skin than you, here's a gigantic list of things that are taboo that you must never say or do around them. You also need to apologize to them constantly." I'd rather just drop all of that performative crap and just treat everyone the same, but for some reason, this is wrong.
I said that Smith didn’t endorse free (meaning unpaid labor) or slave labor. SMH
In academia, the term "free labor" means not slave labor, because it is paid and the person is free to work and live where they can. So when you said "nowhere did Adam Smith endorse free or slave labor" I assumed you were using the normal academic term and meant to say that he didn't take a position on slave labor or free labor (free men doing the labor), which he clearly did.
Giving African Americans your ass to kiss over abolition is flat out insulting and isn’t EVER have the result that you seek. We aren’t all Larry Elder or Candace Owens. No smooches. Sorry.
The United States didn’t pioneer the abolition of slavery. Furthermore, the fact that the United States abolished slavery that it had basically institutionalized is laughable. There are no brownie points for that. Who else was supposed to abolish slavery in this country? The Danish or the Swiss? Get real here.
The racial environment presently in this country may give you lots of frustration, but it is what it is and whites as well as blacks played a huge role in it. This isn’t to say that whites should face perpetual finger pointing and ridicule for what happened, but the vestiges of slavery and Jim Crow are still with us and will be with us for many decades to come. Our brutally racist history is in the nation’s DNA, and will remain to be a matter of debate for our lifetime and our grandchildren’s lifetimes.
In academia, the term "free labor" means not slave labor, because it is paid and the person is free to work and live where they can. So when you said "nowhere did Adam Smith endorse free or slave labor" I assumed you were using the normal academic term and meant to say that he didn't take a position on slave labor or free labor (free men doing the labor), which he clearly did.
Sorry, I thought you had read a decent amount of academic works.
Now you just wanna be insulting, but when I do it, you’ll go report it.
Just nevermind dude. Don’t even bother responding to me anymore. I sit here and concede your point about capitalism, and you still can’t help yourself. You just HAVE to talk out the side of your neck.
Since when did I ask or even suggest that anyone needs to kiss my ass for any reason? My whole point is that none of it has anything to do with me. I didn't enslave anyone. I wasn't alive during Jim Crow segregation. So if somebody wants to indoctrinate me or my children to hate ourselves for this nonsensical "original sin" of whiteness, they can go f--k themselves.
Vermont abolishes slavery in 1777. You find me any example of anyone doing it with real finality sooner and you might have a point. There have been many times where slavery was condemned on a limited basis. Christians banning the enslavement of Christians. Muslims banning the enslavement of Muslims. That kind of thing. But Vermont is the earliest instance I can find where slavery is completely and unconditionally banned. If you know of something earlier, by all means tell us all about it!
The idea of enslaving a group of people that looks different? Not something that the USA, Western Europe or white people came up with. That's been going on since before recorded history. Nation/Group A conquers Nation/Group B and makes slaves out of a large portion of Nation/Group B. Sometimes the conquerors keep the slaves. Sometimes they sell them to somebody else. And whether it was Sub-Saharan Africans, North Africans, Chinese, Mongols, Persians, Babylonians, Egyptians, Greeks, Romans or whoever else, pretty much everyone played the whole, "That group of people who look different. That's how you know they are the slaves." game. The Muslims did the crap out of that one. Largest most brutal slave culture in human history and there's still loads of slaves in the Muslim world right now, but for some reason nobody seems to care. All of the above were brutal a-holes about it. All of the above were extremely racist -- but often drew the lines between races differently than you or I would. But for some idiot reason, only white European people are ever given any grief about any of it. Pardon me if that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
I wasn't raised to believe that the color of person's skin told me anything useful about them, so I will always rebel against the suggestion that, "Because that guy has darker skin than you, here's a gigantic list of things that are taboo that you must never say or do around them. You also need to apologize to them constantly." I'd rather just drop all of that performative crap and just treat everyone the same, but for some reason, this is wrong.
Now you’re playing the aggrieved victim. Lol...okay man. Whatever.
I said that Smith didn’t endorse free (meaning unpaid labor) or slave labor. SMH
Illustrating you've actually read Adam Smith.
Immanuel Kant & Adam Smith were contemporaries, each expressed over & over that to treat an employee, or a slave, or another person, as a means to an end is to treat him as a machine, & is denying his humanity.
You've managed to butcher W.E.B. Du Bois as much, or more than, you've butchered Adam Smith.
Can you please explain to me how I mischaracterized DuBois's quote?
From your quote, it doesn't really say that Lee fought for property and privilege, it says that Virginia did. And Lee followed Virginia.
Why did he follow Virginia? According to DuBois, because he didn't have moral courage, not because he expected "property and privilege".
Thus it seems to distinguish between governments and individuals. Wherein the rule applies to governments but not to people. Which is precisely what I've been saying this entire time.
Last edited by Redshadowz; 07-08-2021 at 07:45 PM..
Can you please explain to be how I mischaracterized DuBois's quote?
From your quote, it doesn't really say that Lee fought for property and privilege, it says that Virginia did. And Lee followed Virginia.
Why did he follow Virginia? According to DuBois, because he didn't have moral courage, not because he expected "property and privilege".
Thus it seems to distinguish between governments and individuals. Wherein the rule applies to governments but not to people. Which is precisely what I've been saying this entire time.
Sophistry is not helpful. Not then, not now.
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