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So - a bit over 1/3 of households owned at least one person. And people in those households would, presumably, benefit from that arrangement. That's not allowing for the fact that the business of renting slaves was quite profitable and widespread.
You don't have to own a house to benefit from houses being a thing. And you don't have to own a slave to benefit from humans as property.
And you don't have to own property to benefit from today's slave trade.
Loveshiscountry, I'd consider it basic etiquette to not put my name over statements I didn't make. Thanks.
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Originally Posted by Loveshiscountry
There is no proof of this.
Rather harsh on the hard-working people who carried out the 1860 census.
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You never looked it up, you just knee jerked it. All because someone said. Are you actually telling me that everyone was married and had families in the south. Have someone do the math for you. Count a family as 1 unit and count a single person as 1 unit and go from there. Don't limit it to just families as that would be dishonest.
I gave you the figures. Not my problem if you don't like them.
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hahahahaha this is another absurd fact. Anyone who has done any research knows for a fact that by 1860 the NE states per capita income was 125% of the Souths. hahahahaha
"Most Southerners owned no slaves and most slaves lived in small groups rather than on large plantations."
The number was under 50%, no one doubts that. It's just that it's not an argument that defends the random rebel soldier as much as people seem to think.
In Mississippi, 49% of 1860 households would have at least one slave. Do you think members of that household benefited from having slave(s) doing grunt work? Slavery wasn't a remote phenomenon that took place away form the eyes and ears of decent people, it was a fact of life that permeated society. They may not have owned slaves. But they saw them, knew of them, rented them, benefited directly from them.
You seem to be saying that fighting for Nazi Germany did not extend the life of the Nazi regime. Clearly that cannot be what you mean. Could you elaborate?
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A discussion starts and you are on the side of B
You have a neighbor, who is having a conversation defending side A. Another person is defending side B, gets mad and attacks the side A neighbor. Dane_in_LA stops the attack. Is Dane_in_LA now defending side A or is Ellis Bell defending a neighbor?
That's - gobbledygook. Did you forget to swap some names or something?
Your post is historically inaccurate. You have provided no proof and deflected from my post. Answer my post and quit making things up.
Slavery was a point of contention. The Civil War was about secession.
Race-based enslavement was the sine qua non cause.
That is; no obsession with race-based enslavement, no secession, no War. Period. Full stop.
The historical record demonstrates there were far more folks than just President Lincoln who were attempting to avoid what they saw as the inevitable military conflict between the Slaver States & the Free States.
The period from Lincoln's election to secession (Secession Winter) is incredibly well-documented. What were the leadership, i.e. the elected officials/representatives saying? Documentation includes newspaper accounts, State secession conventions/deliberations (Jan - March), testimony from the Washington Peace convention, letters of secessions from the commissioners of Slave States, list of grievances in State declarations of secession, & so on.
Additionally, the Congressional Record of the 36th Congress shows the proposals of many Constitutional Amendments (President Buchanon was the 1st to propose).
'US Constitution & Secession' is a relatively recent book by Dwight Pitcaithley. His book focuses on analyzing these amendments. Basically he breaks down 350 different topics in the proposed 67 amendments. Race-based enslavement expanded in the territories is the largest topic cited. The Slave State position was that Government should protect slavery because slaves are property. 90% of the amendments proposed were about protecting & expanding race-based enslavement. 2 out of the 350 discussed tariffs. 5 were logical exit strategies for secession. One described having 4 Presidents, 1 each for North, South, East & West.
The Slaver States seceded to protect race-based enslavement & the notion of white supremacy.
The Southern Slave Staes were railing against the Northern states, its people, abolitionists, & eventually Lincoln.
In his analysis of the proposed Amendments: the Slave States were willing to trade State authority to protect, & expand race-based enslavement for Federal authority to protect & expand race-based enslavement. In other words, it was about the ridiculousness of the right to own people as property.
As one of the Moderators in the History forum put it "War is due to a failure in politics at the leadership level".
The number was under 50%, no one doubts that. It's just that it's not an argument that defends the random rebel soldier as much as people seem to think.
In Mississippi, 49% of 1860 households would have at least one slave. Do you think members of that household benefited from having slave(s) doing grunt work? Slavery wasn't a remote phenomenon that took place away form the eyes and ears of decent people, it was a fact of life that permeated society. They may not have owned slaves. But they saw them, knew of them, rented them, benefited directly from them.
I am skeptical of that 49% number. Everything is valid....
Lots of southern towns/cities are going to look ugly with empty statue pedestals.
I'd make the argument that the statues at least have artistic merit and should be kept up for that reason alone.
Destroying historical monuments is a sign that a nation is devolving into disorder and chaos.
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