Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Americas holocaust. Truman ignored Japans peace overtures so he incinerate hundreds of thousands of civilians as an egotistical warning to the Russians. If there is a hell, Truman is sitting next to Hitler
Thank you for being factual. The japanese civilians suffered for generations after that bomb was dropped. I give NO glory to the USA for that act against humanity.
the reality IS its pure projection to say : American lives were "saved".
Kinda is the same mindset Hiller would say, Look we saved our germans...thats alot of loyal servants. So what if we annihilated, burned, shot, starved the folks of the jewish faith.
True that Truman did not get proper intel about the Japenese wishing to offer a summit to discuss a cease.
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
68,330 posts, read 54,400,252 times
Reputation: 40736
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ma_Duce
War is a dirty business Japan was doing the same in China
From the invasion of China in 1937 to the end of World War II, the Japanese military regime murdered near 3,000,000 to over 10,000,000 people, most probably almost 6,000,000 Chinese, Indonesians, Koreans, Filipinos, and Indochinese, among others,
Oh, I simply brought up the fire-bombings as they seem little known by many, not that I saw them as wrong in the context of trying to end the war as quickly as possible. While Americans were blessed with not having WW II fought in their homeland I think that can also make some not realize what a nasty, bloody, horrific business war really is. In the long run I think we had no better alternative and that many lives on both sides were saved by eliminating the need for the all-out invasion of Japan.
A neighbor, now deceased, was on the bomber flights that firebombed Japan. He was unable to reconcile his actions in the war with his religious beliefs and values. He suffered horrible PTSD and guilt in the final days of his life.
76 years ago today, on August 5, 1945, the first atomic bomb used in war was dropped on Hiroshima, Japan. (In Japan it was August 6, since they are across the International Date Line from us.)
Three days later, the second atomic bomb used in warfare was flown to its primary target of Kokura, Japan. They found the city obscured by clouds and smoke, and so flew to the secondary target of Nagasaki instead and dropped the bomb there.
Shortly afterward, Japan realized they had no way to stop the Americans from dropping bomb after bomb, wiping out city after city until the Japanese islands became uninhabitable. It also helped that Russia declared war on Japan that day. Japan surrendered, and WWII was over.
Japan didn't know at the time, that those were the only two complete atomic bombs the Americans had been able to produce at that time (plus one more set off in July as a test in New Mexico). They could eventually produce more of the needed fissile material, but it would have taken a while, so the Americans kept quiet. The head of the Manhattan Project, Gen. Leslie Groves expected to have another "Fat Man" (plutonium, as was dropped on Nagasaki) atomic bomb ready for use on 19 August, with three more in September and a further three in October; a second Little Boy bomb (using U-235, the typed dropped on Hiroshima) would not be available until December 1945.
The Army estimated that those two bombs, which killed approx. 150,000 Japanese, saved the lives of between 500,000 and 1 million Americans who would no longer have to invade the Japanese home islands to force a surrender, plus saving a million or more Japanese who would have defended their homes to the death.
Americas holocaust. Truman ignored Japans peace overtures so he incinerate hundreds of thousands of civilians as an egotistical warning to the Russians. If there is a hell, Truman is sitting next to Hitler
You are 100% wrong.
You should read the biography of Hirohito. Unlike the whitewashed versions of his behavior during WW2, the Emperor was fully involved with the military decisions in the war and the treatment of POWs and civilians in the occupied territories. He should have been tried as a war criminal, but it was not politically expedient in the post war era.
Read history. The Emperor and the military were not making overtures to the US for peace. They were seeking potentially using the Russians as intermediaries to discuss terms, but had not initiated that process. Those hopes, of course, were dashed when the Soviets entered the war.
What caused the Japanese to surrender? If you read the biographies of Hirohito, he really did not give a rip about the civilian casualties from the atomic bombs (they were less damaging than the massive napalm attacks already sustained) but more so the involvement of the Soviets. The USSR made rapid, tremendous gains in Mongolia, Manchuria, and Korea, sweeping aside the Japanese easily with their tank armies and newly acquired "Blitzkreig" tactics they learned from the Germans. Hirohito feared a Soviet invasion of the main island (knowing what they did in Germany). Additionally, the Emperor had approved of the plan to kill ALL THE POWs held by the Japanese with the invasion of the home island. ALL OF THE POWs. Those POWs suffered tremendously in the hands of the japanese and had a death rate 10X that of US and British POWs in German camps.
Over 1 million US soldiers would have died with the invasion of the main island. It is reprehensible that people today criticize Truman for using every weapon he had available to save American (and Japanese) lives to end the war. For those who condemn Truman, one wonders whether THEY would have sacrificed their own lives by being a soldier deployed in the invasion of Japan? Certainly not- liberals never sacrifice ANYTHING personally for their beliefs and want others to pay for their decisions. It is the epitome of contempt for one's fellow man and the value of their lives.
If the first life to be sacrificed in the invasion of japan was yours, I'm sure your moral indignation regarding the atomic bombs would be different.
You should read the biography of Hirohito. Unlike the whitewashed versions of his behavior during WW2, the Emperor was fully involved with the military decisions in the war and the treatment of POWs and civilians in the occupied territories. He should have been tried as a war criminal, but it was not politically expedient in the post war era.
Read history. The Emperor and the military were not making overtures to the US for peace. They were seeking potentially using the Russians as intermediaries to discuss terms, but had not initiated that process. Those hopes, of course, were dashed when the Soviets entered the war.
What caused the Japanese to surrender? If you read the biographies of Hirohito, he really did not give a rip about the civilian casualties from the atomic bombs (they were less damaging than the massive napalm attacks already sustained) but more so the involvement of the Soviets. The USSR made rapid, tremendous gains in Mongolia, Manchuria, and Korea, sweeping aside the Japanese easily with their tank armies and newly acquired "Blitzkreig" tactics they learned from the Germans. Hirohito feared a Soviet invasion of the main island (knowing what they did in Germany). Additionally, the Emperor had approved of the plan to kill ALL THE POWs held by the Japanese with the invasion of the home island. ALL OF THE POWs. Those POWs suffered tremendously in the hands of the japanese and had a death rate 10X that of US and British POWs in German camps.
Over 1 million US soldiers would have died with the invasion of the main island. It is reprehensible that people today criticize Truman for using every weapon he had available to save American (and Japanese) lives to end the war. For those who condemn Truman, one wonders whether THEY would have sacrificed their own lives by being a soldier deployed in the invasion of Japan? Certainly not- liberals never sacrifice ANYTHING personally for their beliefs and want others to pay for their decisions. It is the epitome of contempt for one's fellow man and the value of their lives.
If the first life to be sacrificed in the invasion of japan was yours, I'm sure your moral indignation regarding the atomic bombs would be different.
Im not defending the sadistic/criminal actions of the Japanese military. I wonder, did those responsible for criminal acts actually suffer a penalty, or did we give them reconstruction jobs like we did with many Nazis?
Truman arrogantly used every resource at his disposal except for diplomacy. Why talk peace when you can slaughter a bunch of non-combatants to prove how big and bad you are? We sure showed them.
Such a stunning lack of awareness, especially given the number US citizens that suffered the same fate for much the same reasons on 9/11
If you add together the people killed in the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and then double it, you get roughly the number of people killed in the Rape of Nanking.
And the people of Nanking had already surrendered.
Exactly. People that are ignorant of history ignore or aren't aware of Japan's atrocities during the war make light of them. Their actions in Nanking, and across China, the Bataan Death March, the mass rapes of "comfort women" and human medical experiments demonstrate that the Japanese people, and their emperor, were at least as barbaric as anything the Nazis and Hitler did. Their treatment of American POWs was far worse than Germany. I have no issue with the use of those nukes if wiping out 2 cities saved ONE American life, let alone 1 million.
If you add together the people killed in the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and then double it, you get roughly the number of people killed in the Rape of Nanking.
And the people of Nanking had already surrendered.
Yeah, if you look at the number of civilian deaths in Japanese occupied territories they were killing well over 100k a MONTH during the 1930's and 40's.
People handwringing about the a-bombs almost always have no real historical knowledge or consideration of people in occupied territories....nor what the Russians did to Japan at the same time.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
