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Old 12-06-2021, 07:34 PM
bu2
 
24,108 posts, read 14,891,132 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musiqum View Post
Better explain why Russia needs to annex Ukraine, which has a ruined economy, ruined industrial and civil infrastructure and multibillion-dollar debts? Russia does not need such an beggar appendage on their spending. Russia needs Ukraine as a buffer against NATO forces. Russia benefits having Ukraine as a country on their western borders. There is no point in capturing Ukraine, which will soon creep into Russia itself.
Exactly. They want weak nations on their borders. Their pattern is to create internal strife, not to take it over-Moldova, The Ukraine, Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belorus.
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Old 12-06-2021, 07:37 PM
bu2
 
24,108 posts, read 14,891,132 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
Ukraine IS part of Russia actually.
(Except for the two Westernmost provinces, that never shared their history with Russia, but fell under the influence of the Catholic Church.)

So Putin is actually right when he says that, it's the historic truth.

With that being said however, not every Ukrainian wants to join Russian political system.

That much is true as well.
Actually, a good part of the Ukraine was Poland before the Russians ethnically cleansed Poles and Germans after WWII. Poland lost about half its territory to Belorus and the Ukraine and was given a big chunk of Germany to partially make up.
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Old 12-06-2021, 07:38 PM
bu2
 
24,108 posts, read 14,891,132 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrPibbs View Post
I wouldn't believe anything WaPo puts out there. It's a mouthpiece of the Biden administration. They don't obtain any news, the receive the material and instructions directly from the US government.
I don't believe the CIA either where this report supposedly comes from.
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Old 12-06-2021, 07:40 PM
bu2
 
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Originally Posted by erasure View Post
Yeah, since... 1654.
And they used to be one and the same country 300 years before that too.
Wrong. Ukraine has been separate several times.
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Old 12-06-2021, 07:42 PM
 
26,790 posts, read 22,556,454 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2 View Post
Actually, a good part of the Ukraine was Poland before the Russians ethnically cleansed Poles and Germans after WWII. Poland lost about half its territory to Belorus and the Ukraine and was given a big chunk of Germany to partially make up.

Russians simply took back their old territories that they've lost after the WWI.
And this includes Ukraine.
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Old 12-06-2021, 07:43 PM
 
Location: Northern Wisconsin
10,379 posts, read 10,919,333 times
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If Russia invades, it's not Obama's fault. It's Putin.
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Old 12-06-2021, 07:44 PM
bu2
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vincenze View Post
I checked the historical facts.

Crimea wanted to become a country during the dissolution of the USSR. The Crimean population voted for it unanimously.
Somehow, the Ukraine annexed Crimea and ignored the popular vote.

When there was a chance while Ukrainian nationalist crowds tried to oust the Ukrainian president, Crimeans quickly voted again and joined Russia.
They were super smart as Putin invests 20 times more in Crimea than the Ukraine during the best years. Now, the Ukraine is the poorest country in Europe, what can it possibly invest?
What did you read? The inside of a shoebox? This is so ignorant.

Crimea has been part of the Ukraine since 1954 when the Soviets transferred it from Russia to the Ukraine.
Russia sent in special forces to overturn the Ukrainian government in Crimea. The ethnic Russian population did want to be part of Russia, but the Tartars and most of the Ukrainians were heavily opposed.

Ukraine is poor in large part because of Russian manipulation. That's the way Russia wants it.
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Old 12-06-2021, 07:47 PM
 
26,790 posts, read 22,556,454 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2 View Post
Wrong. Ukraine has been separate several times.

Yes, during those 300 years before 1654, when Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth took over Ukrainian lands.

Then Ukrainians asked Moscow for protection from Poles.

That's how/why they joined Russia again.

Last edited by erasure; 12-06-2021 at 07:57 PM..
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Old 12-06-2021, 07:57 PM
 
26,790 posts, read 22,556,454 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2 View Post
What did you read? The inside of a shoebox? This is so ignorant.

Crimea has been part of the Ukraine since 1954 when the Soviets transferred it from Russia to the Ukraine.

Both Ukrainian Republic and Russian republic were part of the same country at that point. So this *transfer* was a symbolic gesture, in the name only.



Quote:
Russia sent in special forces to overturn the Ukrainian government in Crimea.

Russia didn't have to send anything, since Russian naval military base that was operating in Crimea since imperial times had enough of people to take care of business.



Quote:
The ethnic Russian population did want to be part of Russia, but the Tartars and most of the Ukrainians were heavily opposed.
The latter two were in clear minority, so their voices didn't matter.


Quote:
Ukraine is poor in large part because of Russian manipulation. That's the way Russia wants it.

Ukraine is not "poor" ( at least not used to be - they used to be second most prosperous republic in the USSR after the "Russia proper" from what I remember.
But it doesn't have the sufficient amount of oil and gas, and that makes a big difference.
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Old 12-06-2021, 08:01 PM
 
8,156 posts, read 3,678,584 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2 View Post
What did you read? The inside of a shoebox? This is so ignorant.

Crimea has been part of the Ukraine since 1954 when the Soviets transferred it from Russia to the Ukraine.
Russia sent in special forces to overturn the Ukrainian government in Crimea. The ethnic Russian population did want to be part of Russia, but the Tartars and most of the Ukrainians were heavily opposed.

Ukraine is poor in large part because of Russian manipulation. That's the way Russia wants it.
Well Crimea was gifted to Ukraine in 1954 by the secretary general. It was against the Russian and Soviet constitutions at that time. So there is that.
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