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Old 05-19-2008, 04:46 AM
 
Location: Louisville KY Metro area
4,826 posts, read 14,315,331 times
Reputation: 2159

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In 1917, Russia had significantly painful issues, so painful that they revolted for better days promised by the Red Party....

1932, following bitterly painful economic depression, Germany found it's savior.

1980's, poor Muslims heard clerics ranting that hatred was the way forward.

Now forward to 2008, is it possible that America is crying so much that it will listen to baseless orations rather than logical disciplines...

I am genuinely afraid of us shooting ourselves in the foot.
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Old 05-19-2008, 05:48 AM
 
Location: DC Area, for now
3,517 posts, read 13,263,662 times
Reputation: 2192
Each of those events were based on a desperate population. While we seem to be on the downslide and our economy is tipping to an unhealthy widening of income gap, we aren't that desperate yet. We still have viable elections that allow we, the people, to throw the current bums out and elect new ones.

The mass of people have always listened to "baseless orations rather than logical disciplines..." Elections are decided more on emotional content than logical thinking. Our system of checks and balances is what keeps us safe. Better the mediocre leader than the brilliant despot. That's why it is so important to have an independent judiciary and for Congress to maintain its powers.
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Old 05-19-2008, 06:03 AM
 
Location: Huntington, NY
889 posts, read 2,407,075 times
Reputation: 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomocox View Post
In 1917, Russia had significantly painful issues, so painful that they revolted for better days promised by the Red Party....

1932, following bitterly painful economic depression, Germany found it's savior.

1980's, poor Muslims heard clerics ranting that hatred was the way forward.

Now forward to 2008, is it possible that America is crying so much that it will listen to baseless orations rather than logical disciplines...

I am genuinely afraid of us shooting ourselves in the foot.
BINGO

and if anyone thinks that the current choices are going to "change" things for the better.....it's time to take the head out of the sand!

Just give a good read to or watch the youtube of Naomi Wolf - The End Of America:


YouTube - Talk by Naomi Wolf - The End of America

Amazon.com: The End of America: Letter of Warning to a Young Patriot: Naomi Wolf: Books


Or another good read would be

Judge Napolitano "A Nation of Sheep"

Amazon.com: A Nation of Sheep: Andrew P. Napolitano: Books
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Old 05-19-2008, 08:01 AM
 
1,570 posts, read 2,070,424 times
Reputation: 461
No we are not headed for a dictatorship. That is all that needs to be said and now that it has. Can we just lock the thread?
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Old 05-19-2008, 08:51 AM
 
Location: Houston Texas
2,915 posts, read 3,518,523 times
Reputation: 877
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tesaje View Post
Each of those events were based on a desperate population. While we seem to be on the downslide and our economy is tipping to an unhealthy widening of income gap, we aren't that desperate yet. We still have viable elections that allow we, the people, to throw the current bums out and elect new ones.

The mass of people have always listened to "baseless orations rather than logical disciplines..." Elections are decided more on emotional content than logical thinking. Our system of checks and balances is what keeps us safe. Better the mediocre leader than the brilliant despot. That's why it is so important to have an independent judiciary and for Congress to maintain its powers.
Viable elections? The media has controlled this election from the outset giving us the 3 "candidates" that we have!
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Old 05-19-2008, 11:30 AM
 
11,944 posts, read 14,787,059 times
Reputation: 2772
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tesaje View Post
Each of those events were based on a desperate population. While we seem to be on the downslide and our economy is tipping to an unhealthy widening of income gap, we aren't that desperate yet. We still have viable elections that allow we, the people, to throw the current bums out and elect new ones.

The mass of people have always listened to "baseless orations rather than logical disciplines..." Elections are decided more on emotional content than logical thinking. Our system of checks and balances is what keeps us safe. Better the mediocre leader than the brilliant despot. That's why it is so important to have an independent judiciary and for Congress to maintain its powers.
Tesaj I'm afraid things are much worse than you imagine they are.
-Fiscal solvency of SS
-Middle class financially assaulted for over 20 yrs with gaps that keep getting bigger every year.
-outrageous healthcare costs
-weakened dollar
-unregulated energy holding global economy hostage
-how many trillions poured into the sand?
-outsourcing of jobs for decade
-underemployment
-the deficit rolling foward
-perpetual trade deficits
These are just the issues 2 parties agree are real. Then there are the issues of
-an unjust war that qualifies under the heading of war crimes
-propaganda being passed off as factual in newsmedia, journalistic standards at an all time low
-propaganda being forced onto the press under duress
-religious organizations trying to force religion onto others through manipulation of republican and third party politics
-civil liberty infractions of current admin AND homeland security

Everytime officials get elected they did so through lobbyist money, and so the real problems we need addressed get shoved further under a carpet to satisfy private agendas not in keeping with best interests of americans
The judiciary has cronyism, congress is filabustered, journalism controlled by corporate media giants- I'm afraid you're counting on checks and balances that just don't exist anymore.
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Old 05-19-2008, 12:03 PM
 
Location: DC Area, for now
3,517 posts, read 13,263,662 times
Reputation: 2192
Quote:
Originally Posted by harborlady View Post
Tesaj I'm afraid things are much worse than you imagine they are.
-Fiscal solvency of SS
-Middle class financially assaulted for over 20 yrs with gaps that keep getting bigger every year.
-outrageous healthcare costs
-weakened dollar
-unregulated energy holding global economy hostage
-how many trillions poured into the sand?
-outsourcing of jobs for decade
-underemployment
-the deficit rolling foward
-perpetual trade deficits
These are just the issues 2 parties agree are real. Then there are the issues of
-an unjust war that qualifies under the heading of war crimes
-propaganda being passed off as factual in newsmedia, journalistic standards at an all time low
-propaganda being forced onto the press under duress
-religious organizations trying to force religion onto others through manipulation of republican and third party politics
-civil liberty infractions of current admin AND homeland security

Everytime officials get elected they did so through lobbyist money, and so the real problems we need addressed get shoved further under a carpet to satisfy private agendas not in keeping with best interests of americans
The judiciary has cronyism, congress is filabustered, journalism controlled by corporate media giants- I'm afraid you're counting on checks and balances that just don't exist anymore.
Compared to the desperation of the poor in Russia pre-1917 and in Germany post WWI, things are pretty creamy here. I'm not saying we don't have problems, and I agree with your list - we do have problems. But we don't have starving masses - and I mean literally starving like Russia did and Germany with absolutely no hope of change or any way out of their situations. Our problems are fixable and so far we have managed to limp along. And we can change our leadership by following our laws. We don't have to resort to the desperate move of overthrowing the government and the resulting chaos that would happen.
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Old 05-19-2008, 12:09 PM
 
11,135 posts, read 14,196,176 times
Reputation: 3696
It almost always out of times in great turmoil in which social and political change is most dramatic. I believe the book, The Shock Doctrine even describes this in good detail.

I happen to think the reason that we have seen so little change is that as other posters have mention, while things might be bumpy, they are far from destitute. People are still shopping for 50" big screen LCD TV's and Leasing new Lexus's.

You will know when times are truly bad when you look at the neighbors dog and think, man, there is a weeks worth on the paw right there.... (slurp)

Hopefully before things get like that we will find the wisdom to fix those things that are broken, or at least bent.
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Old 05-19-2008, 12:18 PM
 
Location: Not where I want to be
24,509 posts, read 24,204,357 times
Reputation: 24282
If getting elected President of the United States didn't take big money nowadays, perhaps things could change. I doubt if any mother ever says to her child "you could grow up to be President" anymore. Unless, of course, that mother happens to be a billionairess.
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Old 05-19-2008, 12:26 PM
 
11,944 posts, read 14,787,059 times
Reputation: 2772
I believe things can be fixed, absolutely. But not by the unwilling.

I'm more concerned about this long term divisiveness going on in our country getting amped up so hard that restoring civil rights and the principles this very country are founded are going to be revised to suit special interest groups who manage to buy their way to access.
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