Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
If you can't stare truth in the eye, and still love your country, maybe your love of your country is based on nothing?
I can stare truth in the eye, and still think the US is the greatest country on the planet, and pledge allegiance to it. Apparently some have to deny reality, and sugar coat your nation's history, in order to feel patriotic.
Where am I denying history?
You're the one who wants to twist history and the intentions of the Founders by concentrating on the whole "well regulated militia" part of the amendment.
I'll entertain your theory that a possible slave rebellion may have been in the minds of some of the Founders at the time.
But it doesn't mean that that was the entire reason behind the 2nd amendment.
Again, correlation doesn't equal causation.
Also again, the Supreme Court disagrees with you.
And I'd wager that they have researched the matter more extensively than you have.
Besides, if it was the intention of the Founders to limit arms to the militia, why are there no historical accounts of them enforcing that interpretation by confiscating arms from the general public?
Why go to all the trouble of codifying something in The Bill of Rights, second only to the freedom of speech...... something as obvious as the the need of the military to have weapons?
And if you meant ONLY the military, why follow it with "the right of THE PEOPLE to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"?
Your interpretation requires that the two phrases contradict each other.
Again, if you bothered to research other writings of the Founders and other documents from the states at the time (which the Supreme Court HAS done) you'd know how ridiculous your argument is.
If only the people who debated and crafted the Constitution had left an historical record with detailed accounts of the meanings behind the document. They could have called it "The Federalist Capers" or something similar.
you mean, like the author of the book making the claim, that NPR interviewed 6 months ago and ClaraC found today?
I mean like the entire "progressive" Left that sees racism around every corner and under every rock.
Because that's what they're trained to do.
Their entire political ideology is built on a platform that demands it.
They literally have no choice in the matter because they've convinced themselves that the visual spectrum in their collective cortexes contain only black and white receptors.
Everything is seen in the context of race; ergo, everything is racist.
If only the people who debated and crafted the Constitution had left an historical record with detailed accounts of the meanings behind the document. They could have called it "The Federalist Capers" or something similar.
Yeah, if people only wanted to know the truth instead of some off the wall wacko claim they could.
It's out there in plain language.
They are the same that have no understanding of the principles upon which our nation was built and one and the same being complicit in tearing it down with their misinformation of corrupt "feelings".
Again, take a look at other writings, laws and state constitutions of the time.
When you take the whole of that available information, it's clear that the spirit and intention of the 2nd amendment was to put the people on equal footing with the government.
Lest you conveniently forget, the Founders had just fought a war against a tyrannical government in order to form their own country.
That war was won in no small part because the general public was armed.
This mentality makes me want to repeatedly beat my head against a brick wall.
This country has taken stupid to another level.
The level is so high it’s become a stupid skyscraper.
For people who are greatly interested in history, and the "why" of things, this is extremely interesting.
People throughout US history have wondered why this amendment was written so confusingly, where every single other thing in the constitution is crystal clear.
It's because they intended it to be confusing. They intended to obfuscate the purpose of this right to bear arms.
To me, I find it extremely interesting, when the last piece of a jigsaw puzzle is snapped into place. OH. THAT'S what the militia is for in that amendment. Makes complete sense, knowing the whole story. That year they rightfully feared a huge slave uprising.
And I do understand why 2A supporters would want to think this is of no import whatsoever. Because it's . . well, kind of embarrassing to begin with, and secondly, the amendment wasn't in fact meant to arm individuals against other individuals. Not at all.
It is interesting to think about, but it isn't embarrassing to me as a second amendment supporter. The second amendment has nothing to do with that these days, and it was in fact some former Union soldiers that put the NRA together, and as a result this ruffled some feathers with the racist southerners who didn't want Black people to gain access to firearms.
There are beneficial things that came out of a sordid history. This doesn't mean that we should throw the baby out with the bathwater. I'm a liberal, but I am a strong advocate for the right to self defense.
Last edited by ecko_complex24; 01-02-2022 at 12:51 PM..
For a student of history Clara C, you seem awfully anxious to assume that correlation equals causation.
For a student of history that individual has absolutely no idea of what they are talking about? All they have to do is read the writings of the founder's themselves to find out the true meaning of the 2nd Amendment and what the founder's intentions were for incorporating it into the Bill of Rights. Not what their own personal opinion or interpretation of the 2nd Amendment is.
At any rate the Supreme Court has already reached the conclusion based on facts that the 2nd Amendment is indeed an individual right unrelated to service in a militia and applies to weapons that are in "common use".
Quote:
Samuel Adams: "Among the natural rights of the colonists are these: first, a right to life, secondly to liberty, thirdly to property; together with the right to defend them in the best manner they can."
"That the said Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press or the rights of conscience; or to prevent the people of The United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms..." (Samuel Adams, Debates and Proceedings in the Convention of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, at 86-87 (Peirce & Hale, eds., Boston, 1850))
John Adams: "Arms in the hands of the citizens may be used at individual discretion for the defense of the country, the overthrow of tyranny or private self-defense."
Thomas Jefferson: "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms in his own lands." --Thomas Jefferson, in an early draft of the Virginia constitution:
"The constitutions of most of our States assert that all power is inherent in the people; that... it is their right and duty to be at all times armed." --Thomas Jefferson to John Cartwright, 1824. ME 16:45
"And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms....The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants" (Thomas Jefferson in a letter to William S. Smith in 1787. Taken from Jefferson, On Democracy 20, S. Padover ed., 1939)
"A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercise, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball and others of that nature are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks."
Tench Coxe: "Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American... The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state government, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people"
Thomas Paine: "The supposed quietude of a good man allures the ruffian; while on the other hand, arms like laws discourage and keep the invader and the plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. The balance of power is the scale of peace. The same balance would be preserved were all the world destitute of arms, for all would be alike; but since some will not, others dare not lay them aside. Horrid mischief would ensue were one half the world deprived of the use of them; the weak would become a prey to the strong."
Noah Webster: "Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword, because the whole of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops."
Richard Henry Lee: "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of people always possess arms, and be taught alike especially when young, how to use them."
Patrick Henry: "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel.
Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined"
"The great object is that every man be armed" and "everyone who is able may have a gun."
"Are we at last brought to such humiliating and debasing degradation, that we cannot be trusted with arms for our defense? Where is the difference between having our arms in possession and under our direction, and having them under the management of Congress? If our defense be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?"
George Washington: "A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence for any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government."
James Madison: "Oppressors can tyrannize only when they achieve a standing army, and enslaved press, and a disarmed populace."
George Mason: "I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
Right now, everything is racist. The highways are racist, math is racist, exams are racist, stopping looters is racist, and of course, now the 2nd Amendment is racist. It's simple really. Try to keep up or you risk being labeled a racist yourself.
It has become absurd has it not? As liberals have vacated rational thought and critical thinking, they resort to easily regurgitated sound bytes as retorts to anything they do not understand or cannot defend. Don't know what the hell to say? Just label that enigmatic and confusing entity "racist" and that will fix them!
Libs do not realize how ignorant and simple they sound when they resort to using "racism" as their last line of "intellectual" defense. It is hilarious. In nearly all instances, "racism" does not have the slightest thing to do with the discussion at hand, but relevance and rationality does not matter to a lib. They are smugly safe in delivering the linguistic "atom bomb" of "racism" that will end all arguments immediately and definitively (in their warped minds). Of course, they simply look like fools to anyone with an ounce of grey matter.
Funny that these insane libs fail to understand that it was firearms that freed the slaves, not snowflakes armed with umbrellas and soup cans "bravely" assaulting police who are ordered not to use reasonable force to disperse those morons. It is safe to say that the Confederates, confronted with these masked, blue haired loons, would have immediately shot them without a second thought.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
