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Old 02-26-2022, 10:54 AM
 
8,346 posts, read 3,552,340 times
Reputation: 5733

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferd View Post
again.

YOU JUST BLAMED THE RAPE VICTIM
If he's really from Turkey, the Muslims punish rape victims there.

 
Old 02-26-2022, 11:55 AM
 
73,184 posts, read 62,867,835 times
Reputation: 21989
Quote:
Originally Posted by james112 View Post
You are correct. Putin is upset that the president of Ukraine, and most Ukrainians (62%), want to join NATO (since 2014). And the EU. This upsets Putin. In fact, he's paranoid about it. He's paranoid that eventually Ukraine would join NATO, and the EU. So he decided to attack Ukraine with the goal to replace it's pro West government with a pro-Russian government.

Ukraine has been independent for 30 years since the Soviet Union broke up. Ukraine has it's own language and politics which about 30% consider themselves Russian.

If the Soviet Empire was so good how come it could not provide a decent economy for it's people? Why try to form that failed system again?
Ukraine has a very bad history with Russia (look up Holodomor). Ukraine wants nothing to do with Russia. This scares Putin because he sees NATO as a national threat to Russia. This is why he has that "strong man" mentality. It's his "Make Russia Great Again" program. He understands something. Mess with one NATO member, you mess with ALL of the NATO members. America is part of NATO too. Ukraine looking westward scares Russia because now for another reason.

The Black Sea has plenty of warm water areas to project influence. Russia has Black Sea ports. However, so does Romania, Bulgaria, and Turkey. And those are NATO members. If Ukraine were to join NATO, this would given cities like Odessa, Kherson, and Chornomorsk NATO power. Ukraine doesn't have as large of a navy as Russia. However, Ukraine has access to the Black Sea, and it's west of Russia. Russia annexed Crimea for this reason. Odessa used to be the largest warm-water port of the Russian Empire and of the Soviet Union. Now, it's Ukraine's largest port. If Russia were to try anything, it could be boxed in easily. Russia could be blockaded easily. This is why Russia is invading Ukraine by land.

The Baltic region has plenty of NATO members, but Finland isn't one of them. Neither is Sweden. They are neutral in that regard. Finland and Russia have a history with each other as well (look up Russo-Finnish War). Finland and Sweden don't have the power to blockade Russia. However, Poland does. Latvia and Estonia are NATO members and could be part of that collaborative help.

Putin wanted to invade Ukraine because if Ukraine were to ever become a NATO member, Russia's chances of ever becoming a superpower again would be nil. The idea is to keep Russia in checkmate. If Ukraine ever did join NATO, and Russia were to move against Ukraine after, that would be the end of that. The Baltic states have some bad memories with Russia as well. So does Poland. All of NATO (including the USA) would get involved. The USA has a much bigger military than Russia and there are U.S. troops stationed in Europe. Putin is scared because he's an imperialist and he understand that if Ukraine goes the way of NATO, he's done for. This is why there has been conflict in the Luhansk and Donetsk oblasts. Those are majority-Russian areas within Ukraine that want out. They no longer want to be part of Ukraine because Ukrainians are looking west. Russians are looking to Russia.
 
Old 02-26-2022, 12:01 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas & San Diego
6,913 posts, read 3,412,740 times
Reputation: 8630
Quote:
Originally Posted by s002wjh View Post
the thing is if they said they dont want join NATO, russia likely not attack it. ukraine should play smart and not lean too much on either side. you dont see russia attack white russia or belarus or other former soviet union nation thats closer to russia.
That is again an attempt aimed at blaming Ukraine for Russia's aggression - as an independent country, they had no need to bend to Russian will - they did not ask to be attacked.

Ukraine wanted NATO but was unlikely to happen, now it may. Belarus (White Russia) bends to Russian whims already - why attack those that support you. Many of the other former USSR countries are now in NATO so attacking would mean a much bigger deal.
 
Old 02-26-2022, 12:42 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas & San Diego
6,913 posts, read 3,412,740 times
Reputation: 8630
Quote:
Originally Posted by john3232 View Post
How come Ukraine wanted to face the second most powerful country of the world?

Two words: Alexander Vindman

Our pudgy-faced general was born in Ukraine and fears no nation.
Vindman was a LtCOL before he retired, several ranks lower. He is currently a blogger - what makes you think he has any power to influence things in Ukraine?
 
Old 02-26-2022, 12:57 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas & San Diego
6,913 posts, read 3,412,740 times
Reputation: 8630
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocko20 View Post
At least Russia is largely only targeting military objectives. Downtown easily could’ve been bombed to Bolivia right now.
Not even close to correct - Russia attacked places like Chernobyl, used unguided rockets to start their attacks and tried to take the commercial cargo Airport near Kyiv - that is not strictly attacks on military opposition. You need air superiority to "bomb to Bolivia" - that appears to have not happened yet. Also would take out the cities infrastructure, a city that Russia wants to control.
 
Old 02-26-2022, 01:01 PM
 
Location: Honolulu, HI
24,828 posts, read 9,590,338 times
Reputation: 23129
Quote:
Originally Posted by ddeemo View Post
You need air superiority to "bomb to Bolivia" - that appears to have not happened yet.
No you don't. Last I checked, Russia has ICBMs. Wake us up when they get rid of them.

Some of you folks really skipped history class, the part where Russia is the #2 most powerful military in the world. Which means they have a lot in their arsenal they haven't used yet.
 
Old 02-26-2022, 01:10 PM
 
Location: San Diego
18,746 posts, read 7,657,740 times
Reputation: 15012
Quote:
Originally Posted by ansible90 View Post
I think his point got lost in translation. OP is from Turkey. I don't think he meant the word "wanted." More like Ukraine got stuck facing the second most powerful country.
Kind of interesting how, when Russia does something really vile, people pop up on this forum defending them to the hilt, often using laughable excuses. And every time anybody offers them a legitimate challenge based on fact, their nonsense always turns out to be "merely a language gap problem, they didn't really mean that, it was a mistake".... despite the fact that the "mistake" always wound up supporting the vile actor and never their victim.
 
Old 02-26-2022, 01:13 PM
 
Location: Honolulu, HI
24,828 posts, read 9,590,338 times
Reputation: 23129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboteer View Post
Kind of interesting how, when Russia does something really vile, people pop up on this forum defending them to the hilt,
I'm pretty sure we Americans have done vile things since our inception: manifest destiny, capturing Hawaii and other US territories like Puerto Rico and Guam, slavery, Jim crow, Vietnam war crimes, coups, invasion of middle eastern countries, drone striking hospitals, Japanese interment camps, founding father slave owners.

But I'm glad you think we have the moral high ground on other countries. It lets us know who skipped American history.
 
Old 02-26-2022, 02:41 PM
 
73,184 posts, read 62,867,835 times
Reputation: 21989
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboteer View Post
Kind of interesting how, when Russia does something really vile, people pop up on this forum defending them to the hilt, often using laughable excuses. And every time anybody offers them a legitimate challenge based on fact, their nonsense always turns out to be "merely a language gap problem, they didn't really mean that, it was a mistake".... despite the fact that the "mistake" always wound up supporting the vile actor and never their victim.
People are defending Putin out of spite. Some people admire brute and imperialist tendencies. Some people might be thinking "why can't America be more like that,instead of being ruled by soy boys?".
 
Old 02-26-2022, 02:54 PM
 
14,798 posts, read 17,751,423 times
Reputation: 9252
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocko20 View Post
I'm pretty sure we Americans have done vile things since our inception: manifest destiny, capturing Hawaii and other US territories like Puerto Rico and Guam, slavery, Jim crow, Vietnam war crimes, coups, invasion of middle eastern countries, drone striking hospitals, Japanese interment camps, founding father slave owners.

But I'm glad you think we have the moral high ground on other countries. It lets us know who skipped American history.
Now you sound like a woke leftist
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