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Positive things Trump attempted to do for Russia. Get them back in the G7. They were kicked out for what they did in Crimea. And recent events prove that was a really dumb idea. Trump refused to acknowledge in a public statement the 10 year anniversary of Russia's invasion of Georgia. Even though his staff had a public statement that he had agreed to read. He did sign the 2017 sanctions bill passed by congress after fighting to get it watered down and saying it was unconstitutional. The bill was veto proof so he had no choice. Trump countless times attempted to help Putin and Russia but usually failed because of push back from congress, his own party and his own administration. There are lists of everything Trump has tried to do for Putin or refused to do against Putin. Beyond the scope of this thread. But its well documented.
Crimea is Russia. 85% of the people of Crimea wanted to join Russia. So this is a silly topic by the West. Is none of their business. So Obama and Biden pushed Europe to buy 60% of their energy from Russia and be dependent on Russia's oil but they didn't want Russia part of G7 to be part of their global warming religion.
Italy agreed with Trump but let Europe continued to be dependent on Russia's oil and keep out Russia while they push their global warming policies.
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Originally Posted by Oklazona Bound
No when Trump came in he took over a White House that for 8 years had been winding down the wars GWB started and did not start any major conflicts. It was one of the few bright spots of Obama's time in office in my opinion.
Look Obama won in 2008 and a big part why he won was a shift from Bush and the neocons. He slowly drew down troops in Iraq and Afghanistan.
This huge deficit you speak of when Trump came in? It went away under Trump? I recall even before the pandemic it was zooming up to record levels. Trump tried early in his administration with government shut downs and tried to trim the fat. But the last couple years he gave up on that and let the government get bigger and more out of control. I don't blame him for all the pandemic related spending. I disagree with that spending but Washington was bent on doing that so it is what it is.
B.S!!! Obama extended Bush wars to 7, he expanded the droning by a mile and he was for overthrowing governments. Bush bombed 4 countries and Obama bombed 7. Obama bombed Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, Somalia, Yemen, Libya and Syria.
That's why the G7 is a joke. The U.S. should have been kicked out for what W Bush and Obama did for 16 years of bombing back to the stone ages 7 countries (Bush 4, Obama 7) Obama was a BIG FRAUD. He ran as the anti-Bush and anti-war and when his Noble Peace prize winner fake a$$ got to power he extended Bush wars and his droning. Obama bombed more countries by 500 more times than Bush.
But Russia gets kicked out of the G7 for Crimea which 85% of the people wanted to be under Russia anyway but kept the U.S. ignoring what Bush and Obama did for 16 years which were actual WAR CRIMES. Bombing 7 countries? and the A-holes of G7 like the little puke in Canada act like nothing to see here as long that the U.S. keeps sending lots of money and weapons? thanks for the laugh. These leaders of the G7 are bought for a long time ago.
Bush and Obama's foreign policy is part of this mess but now We are "shocked"????? Now you know why the world calls out our B.S. and many Americans live in la-la land.
How can the U.S. with a straight face say to the world that Russia can't go in Ukraine when the U.S. for 16 years were invading countries with endless bombings of 7 countries? It makes Americans look stupid in front the world.
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Originally Posted by Oklazona Bound
Trump was right about the pipeline in Germany. However what on earth are you talking about. I agree that NATO countries need to pay their fare share. Which countries are get a free ride? You are saying they are not paying anything into NATO? I agree they should all be paying the 2% and Trump was right to bring that up. Whole point of NATO is to take countries that have one thing in common. They don't want Russia attacking them. And the events of the past 2 weeks prove NATO has a very important purpose. And the threat of 30 countries banding together if attacked is to prevent war, not start one. Putin knows what will happen if he attacks a NATO country.
The only bombings and invading that is allowed is by the West. Putting is not attacking NATO. NATO, if they don't want confrontations with Russia shouldn't be expanding to their borders. Simple isn't? But the U.S. are the last people on earth that should be lecturing anybody of wars and bombings. Really.
And the best part is none of the NATO countries have paid their fair share…. Until now. Now they want to increase their defense budgets. Maybe next time they’ll listen to Trump.
You know, now you put it that way, I can see why NATO wants to see Ukraine get pummeled. This is like the scene out of The Long Kiss Goodnight, only this time, Charlie is Zelenskey, the CIA operative is NATO and the "quote unquote bad guys" is Putin/Russia."
I didn't say it was but NATO members were part of the "coalition" of that debacle that was mostly the U.S. and paid by the U.S.
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Originally Posted by Brave New World
As for Afghanistan it was a UN sanctioned operation, and included a good deal of European NATO forces, with the British and Danish suffering a good deal of casualties down in Helmand Province. Any failure in Afghanistan was mainly due to US politicians and especially Joe Biden and his withdrawal strategy.
That's not true. Like Vietnam, it was failure years before the U.S. withdrew. The government under W Bush and Obama were just lying. Like LBJ was lying (see the Pentagon Papers)
Joe Biden took office in 1/2021. After 20 years of a failed war that We kept being lied to, you actual think the war was finally lost in 2021????? Biden gets the blame for voting fot it for 20 years and a bad exit but the war was lost and poorly run by the U.S. and NATO for years and he is not taking all the blame.
If you want the endless wars and endless occupations then keep supporting the massive spending on NATO and letting them keep expanding. It's globalism and a world order. and a threat. If you are for that, go for it. I don't and many Americans also are questioning their existence, goals and the high price tag. Somebody is making lots of money and is not us.
Originally Posted by JohnBoy64 All of these things are exact opposite of what Putin wanted....in reality Putin is probably the only person in the world that could have woken up this long established traditional alliance. Also, a strong US / EU alliance is exactly what China does not want to see.
Clueless. China is smarter. They conquer and control by economic and technology domination. So keep pretending that over paying for a 30 country NATO that couldn't handle Afghanistan that many are dead weight and get a free ride is stopping China. You think China is afraid of NATO? LOL
By just looking at that 20 year debacle in Afghanistan, NATO is worthless and people need to get their head examine if they want to continue throwing endless money to that worthless pit. NATO couldn't handle Afghanistan but they will handle China and Russia? ok
Clueless. China is smarter. They conquer and control by economic and technology domination. So keep pretending that over paying for a 30 country NATO that couldn't handle Afghanistan that many are dead weight and get a free ride is stopping China. You think China is afraid of NATO? LOL
By just looking at that 20 year debacle in Afghanistan, NATO is worthless and people need to get their head examine if they want to continue throwing endless money to that worthless pit. NATO couldn't handle Afghanistan but they will handle China and Russia? ok
Well that was the Old NATO....this Ukraine invasion brought the world to its senses. Germany is putting 100 Billion Euros into its military. NEW GAME!
U.S. funding for NATO military capabilities — such as the alliance ground surveillance system — totaled $7 billion in 2017 and $6.9 billion in 2018. The nation’s military footprint in Europe, which includes about 70,000 troops and a number of bases, had an estimated price tag of $20.3 billion in 2017 and $24.4 billion in 2018. U.S. military aid to NATO allies decreased from $54 million in 2017 to $24 million in 2018, according to IISS.
USA pays about fifth of the entire NATO budget.
USA would spend that anyways. You know that right?
USA would spend that anyways. You know that right?
that's why Americans should be against it. They are using NATO and sentiments and propaganda to keep endless wars and endless occupations when they have been a failure. After the debacles of Iraq and Afghanistan why do We keep these losers making policies and throwing endless money to a pit? I know why but the majority of Americans don't and keep drinking the kool aid. Somebody is getting very rich and is not us.
No we shouldn’t withdraw, but we should of stopped expanding it after Poland was admitted in 1999. It was foolish to include the baltics and it puts us all at risk.
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