Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
It's called defending yourself. That is what an adult does.
You don't get to make the rules when it comes to another person defending themselves. Tell you what, if you're being raped, just fight back with your fists. Don't pull a gun and see how that works out.
This is what happens when a person is not carrying.
No one walks around with a gun in their hand though. Women keep it in their purse. If attacked, they wouldn't be able to access their gun because they would be caught off guard and overpowered. But if they did manage to get to their gun and killed someone, it would be a nightmare for them with on going legal problems. Better for women to learn self defense to stop the attack without killing someone.
90-94% (depending on whose stats you look at) of NICS denials (the background check you get when buying a firearm) are false positives.
Don't assume that what should be, is. Not when it comes to firearms and governments. There's no other area of civil rights where they'll encroach more, from every possible angle and well beyond the boundaries set by the law.
IOW, if you find yourself saying "obviously" in a discussion such as this, stop yourself. Nothing is obvious and if you think something is, you're probably wrong. No offense intended.
I hear you there brother. I'm not at all offended.
I've been in gun stores where people were delayed because of NICS. Either the system was not responding or delayed for some unknown to me reason. The store clerks are happy as pigs in **** when people have a CWP. You just fill out Form 4473 pay the man and out you go with your brand new gun.
Other than getting a Concealed Weapons Permit in Arizona I've never had to get a NICS check when buying a firearm. When I had a permit in New York there was no such thing as NICS. But I had to go through a lot of bureaucratic BS and a long wait just to get a CWP. It's been so long that I don't even know where to begin? To say that the gun laws in New York suck is a gross understatement. In spite of all that crap I couldn't lawfully carry in NYC where you need it the most. But I rarely if ever went there, mostly as a kid to see the sights. I saw the towers go down from 20 miles away though. They were clearly visible from my vantage point on the Hudson River. My grandmother took me there to see them when they first started construction. I never thought I'd live to see the day when they came crashing down with my own two eyes. It's a date I'll never forget.
I didn't miss your simple point. YOU missed my point. Who are you to decide for others if they want to open carry and if it is a risk? That's the individuals decision. Not yours. Your hands are full running your own life.
And bats could fly up my backside. Do you have a point?
Explain to me why something that happens an insignificant number of times matters?
Someone, at one time, went to a class.
Nothing to do with open carry.
sigh.... Because an inter racial couple back in the day made people feel uncomfortable. That was your reason for not wanting it. It made people feel uncomfortable.
It's like you don't have a thought process.
Rights have nothing to do with whether it makes anyone uncomfortable or not.
I appreciate you took the time to dissect my opinion and correct me on it.
All that we should all ask for is that anyone that carries a gun knows how to handle that gun so as not to injure themselves or others. Requiring a permit or at least a class will ensure that the new gun owner has a basic understanding of the firearm and rules of the road.
Guns are potentially deadly weapons just like a car is. We have to demonstrate that we know how to safely operate a car and the associated laws so why not guns too?
I live in Mass. so what flies out in the Western states such as open carry would be met with gun fearing, gun hating Loony Liberal heads exploding here. The Karen's would be blowing up 911.
I still do not understand your comments on inter racial couples. Are you saying that people used to be uncomfortable with a mixed race couple but now that it is more main stream it is ok? Are you saying that over time and eventually people will get used to and not be shocked when they see a guy walking down the aisle of a store with a gun on his hip? Is my thought process on the right path?
I just think it would be better for gun carrying folks to carry concealed. People including criminals do not need to know you are carrying for obvious reasons.
No one walks around with a gun in their hand though. Women keep it in their purse. If attacked, they wouldn't be able to access their gun because they would be caught off guard and overpowered.
So there is never an incident where a woman has time to pull a gun out? What about men? They don't carry it in their hand so what about men? Women are so inept that they can't figure out how to observe and protect themselves? Between degrading the intelligence of blacks and the helplessness of women, you lefties sure do look down on certain groups.
Quote:
Originally Posted by natalie469
But if they did manage to get to their gun and killed someone, it would be a nightmare for them with on going legal problems.
No it wouldn't. You have to stop making things up. I doubt there is a person who would rather be raped vs going to trial for defending themselves.
Quote:
Originally Posted by natalie469
Better for women to learn self defense to stop the attack without killing someone.
Anything helps but men can easily over power a woman. Good luck with that.
I appreciate you took the time to dissect my opinion and correct me on it.
All that we should all ask for is that anyone that carries a gun knows how to handle that gun so as not to injure themselves or others. Requiring a permit or at least a class will ensure that the new gun owner has a basic understanding of the firearm and rules of the road.
Guns are potentially deadly weapons just like a car is. We have to demonstrate that we know how to safely operate a car and the associated laws so why not guns too?
Someone, at one time, passed a test. Better than nothing. If the drivers test is so good, why do we have thousands and thousands of wrecks every year?
I learned how to drive by taking a class in high school and driving around with town with my parents. They gave me the reinforcement and guidance that one needs in order to improve ones self.
Now that said, think about how silly your statement is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cape Cod Todd
I live in Mass. so what flies out in the Western states such as open carry would be met with gun fearing, gun hating Loony Liberal heads exploding here. The Karen's would be blowing up 911.
Rights do not depend on peoples emotions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cape Cod Todd
I still do not understand your comments on inter racial couples. Are you saying that people used to be uncomfortable with a mixed race couple but now that it is more main stream it is ok? Are you saying that over time and eventually people will get used to and not be shocked when they see a guy walking down the aisle of a store with a gun on his hip? Is my thought process on the right path?
Correct. Except it doesn't matter if people get comfortable with it over time. The fact that someone is uncomfortable with something and you want to ban it is the problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cape Cod Todd
I just think it would be better for gun carrying folks to carry concealed. People including criminals do not need to know you are carrying for obvious reasons.
Agreed. However forcing your will on others when no ones rights have been violated has no place in a civilized society.
What's next? Are you going to force gay couples to not be able to marry someone they love because it makes you uncomfortable?
I do not agree with open carry in public because there are way too many people that are afraid of guns and have no clue about them. I am all for citizens that have been trained to safely store, handle and carry a firearm but it should be concealed.
The last thing the average gun owner needs is for some Karen to call 911 because she was triggered by seeing a gun on someones hip and she tells the operator that some guy is waving the gun around. That scene could get ugly.
I believe in the Constitutional Right to own guns but I also believe that people should have a license to do so.
What do other peoples feelings have to do with my rights? I think restaurants should not serve meat. It makes the vegans upset.
I appreciate you took the time to dissect my opinion and correct me on it.
All that we should all ask for is that anyone that carries a gun knows how to handle that gun so as not to injure themselves or others. Requiring a permit or at least a class will ensure that the new gun owner has a basic understanding of the firearm and rules of the road.
Guns are potentially deadly weapons just like a car is. We have to demonstrate that we know how to safely operate a car and the associated laws so why not guns too?
I live in Mass. so what flies out in the Western states such as open carry would be met with gun fearing, gun hating Loony Liberal heads exploding here. The Karen's would be blowing up 911.
I still do not understand your comments on inter racial couples. Are you saying that people used to be uncomfortable with a mixed race couple but now that it is more main stream it is ok? Are you saying that over time and eventually people will get used to and not be shocked when they see a guy walking down the aisle of a store with a gun on his hip? Is my thought process on the right path?
I just think it would be better for gun carrying folks to carry concealed. People including criminals do not need to know you are carrying for obvious reasons.
It certainly would be. It would probably occupy your local news both print and over the air 24/7. I hope that they don't plan on visiting your neighboring Vermont where open carry has always been legal?
The problem with state's that don't allow open carry even with a concealed weapons permit. Is that concealed means just that CONCEALED. If you accidentally print or the wind blows your shirt or coat open and some Karen freaked out and called in the swat teams. You could be charged with violating the terms of your permit. Your permit would be revoked and your handguns confiscated as they would no longer be legal for you to own. At least that's the way it was in New York. I imagine it's the same in Massachusetts?
It's a different world out here that's for sure. A lot of people, probably most people here were brought up with guns and learned how to safely operate them at an early age. They don't have this inordinate fear of firearms or seeing people openly carrying a sidearm. Hence we have some of thee most lenient gun laws in the entire country. The idea of having mandatory training and licensing will never fly at least not in Arizona.
Some people like to open carry as a matter of pride. It's a way of showing that they support the 2nd Amendment and the freedom to carry how they see fit. I have no problems with that, in fact I love it. There's nothing like the taste of freedom. I've yet to see anyone who's openly carrying strutting around trying to act like a big shot. You'll see people with a sidearm on occasion in aisle 7 of the local supermarket picking out groceries or standing in line at the check out counter. It never draws any unwarranted attention. Now that we have Constitutional Carry you don't see as many people carrying openly anymore.
For strategic reasons I never open carry in public as I don't want anyone to know that I'm armed. In case of a shooting incident I don't want to be the first person taken out if the shooter see's that I'm visibly armed. I'd rather have the element of surprise on them. Although in most places you'd have to be on a suicide mission to go on a shooting spree out here. Because chances are there will be several armed citizens around that are more than willing to put a stop to it. There are exceptions of course especially gun free zones. Or at a Gabby Gifford's rally where the attendees would never consider going armed except for one.
Word got out during the George Floyd "Summer of Love" that 600 or more BLM protestors were coming to our downtown. You'd better believe that we all took up arms to greet them. There was at least a few hundred or more of us all armed with handguns, AR 15's, AK's and shotguns. We were there to let them know that under no uncertain terms were they going to burn, vandalize and loot our downtown.
Law enforcement was there as well. You could tell that they were happy to see us. The Oath Keepers were there and along with law enforcement officials they coordinated a meeting with us before the protestors were scheduled to arrive. We had specific instructions not to confront the protestors, all handguns had to be holstered, semi auto rifles and shotguns could have loaded magazines but with an empty chamber. The protestors arrived shouting their stupid little slogans and waving their signs and banners. But at the end of the day not one store was burned, defaced with graffiti or looted. In fact here wasn't even one scrap of litter. Only one person was arrested for an unknown reason. A great day in Arizona that's for sure.
I don't see the requirement to obtain a license to carry a concealed weapon IN PUBLIC as being bad. We don't automatically grant everyone permission to drive a car just because they turn 16 years of age. They need to apply and demonstrate that they have at least some minimal understanding of the traffic laws and some minimal driving skills before being turned loose with a 4,000 pound deadly weapon. I don't think it's unreasonable to require similar reasonable knowledge and skill before granting a license to carry a handgun in public.
Yes, I'm a handgun carrier (legally) and have done so for about the past 40 years, but that doesn't mean that I think that just ANYONE with no training, no knowledge, and no experience should be automatically allowed to carry a handgun anywhere and anytime that they choose. If they want to carry on their own property, that's fine, but carrying in public is a different matter. Similarly, if a person wants to drive a car on their own property, then no license is required, but if you want to drive in public and potentially endanger other people, then passing some minimal knowledge and proficiency test is perfectly fine.
Now before someone chimes in and says "But what about the Second Amendment," I will respond that ALL of our rights have some degree of limitation. We have the right to free speech, but that doesn't give us the right to yell "FIRE" in a crowded theater, nor does it give us the right to slander others. We have the right to peacefully assemble and ask our elected officials to address our grievances, but that doesn't give us the right to form mobs and destroy stuff just because we don't like the way something is done.
ALL rights come with responsibilities, and just because a person has a right to do something at home or on their own property doesn't mean that they automatically have that right to do so in public where they may be infringing on the rights of others. As the old saying goes, "Your right to swing your fist anywhere you want ends where the other person's nose begins." In other words, YOUR rights are not the ONLY rights that must be considered.
Logical, well supported argument. Which will promptly be ignored by the gun fetishists.
The funny part is that a lot of folks believe that "defending 2cd amendment rights" is actually important. When in reality, like many other "issues" it is simply a way to divert attention from the only thing that really matters - the shifting of power from the people to the oligarchs and the autocrats.
Trump and DeSantis and the other power hungry predators on the Radical Right are the puppet masters in this game. The gun rights, anti-abortion, anti-BLM, anti-immigrant, anti-American stooges dance to their tune on command and they do not have a clue that they are being played.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
.
I hope that they don't plan on visiting your neighboring Vermont where open carry has always been legal? 
