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it always amazes me that the AR15 is such the target. If it wasn't this gun used it would be another. But there seems to be both a fascination with the term AR, which must mean Assault Rifle /cough(people seem to think that) and that it looks just like the Military version. I imagine if we changed the shape, painted it pink with flowers and called it the Bunny Thumper 1000(trademark pending) it would be no less capable but I doubt it would draw all the ire it does. The left is always more concerned with appearance over substance. Words over Deeds....
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Originally Posted by ansible90
The question to ask is why the AR15 is the one that is favored by the mentally disturbed young men who buy it to shoot up schools and other crowded places. Maybe something to do with how it is marketed? People do respond to advertisements, you know.
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Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer
Marketing. Same thing with women's clothes. High heels. What exactly is an advantage of high heels or those big butterfly fake eyelashes? People flock to marketing.
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Originally Posted by clee9
The Ar15 might be a "symbol". It produces a certain image in segments of society the same way an Ak47 is the symbol of communism.
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Originally Posted by lookingaround12345
Nah the AR is featured prominently on many products. Add a flag to it and you have the basis for a lot of right wing companies ad campaigns. Black Rifle coffee comes to mind but it isn't uncommon. Not that I care but yeah the AR is overly promoted by the right themselves.
Quote:
Originally Posted by clee9
The BAR doesn't produce the same image the Ar do with certain people. The AR means alot more in the modern day image with a large portion of purely American society. The BAR is something you see from a movie like Saving Pvt Ryan, a weapon from a peice of history. The image is not the same, its hard to explain but it exist. The same situation for the Ak47.
The AR-15 has an allure in the American zeitgeist that other rifles don't have.
Despite lacking the fully automatic firing mode, the AR-15 is otherwise more effectively designed as an offensive anti-personnel weapon than other firearms (excepting other similarly designed weapons such as the civilianized AK-47). Fully automatic firing isn't the only thing that makes it different from a hunting rifle in that respect. The AR-15 has ergonomics tuned to make it a more effective offensive anti-personnel weapon. It's inexpensively customizable to make it even more effective for such a purpose.
There are certainly other firearms that have very similar basic capabilities. Often mentioned (for good reason) is the Ruger Mini-14, which has the military M-14 as its basis of design. The Mini-14, although being also semi-automatic and firing the same .233 round, is still not as efficient as an offensive anti-personnel rifle as the AR-15. If for some reason you like the .223 round but don't plan to shoot people, the Ruger Mini-14 is a fine firearm.
But the AR-15 design is no longer under Colt's patent, which means other manufacturers have jumped into the ring, which means it's cheaper. You can find basic AR-15 rifles for less than a Glock pistol.
And the gadget factor can't be ignored. Guys like gadgets that they can customize and "pimp out," and the AR-15 modular design fits that pleasure better than nearly any other gun (except perhaps a 1911). The ability to accessorize a gun is a major marketing factor. Not having plenty of aftermarket accessories negatively affects a gun's market potential. If anything would attract me to an AR-15, it would be the gadget factor...otherwise there are other rifles that better fit my rifle requirements.
It's not all a matter of intentional marketing--but through all its appearances in American media, from the 70s on, the M-16 became a symbol of American baddassery, both for good and for bad. Nobody buys a Mini-14 to look badass. Not everyone who buys an AR-15 is trying to be badass, but when someone thinks a gun will make him the biggest badass, an AR-15 is what he buys.
Their are other firearms that can be very nearly as destructive as offensive anti-personnel weapons, but the AR-15 is uniquely that symbol in the national zeitgeist.
The news media does a bang up job of glorifying and advertising the AR-15. Can’t remember the last time an AR-15 gun manufacturer had a television commercial on during prime time.
Prime time? If you could actually find one in prime time it would be less than .01%.
I hesitate to call someone a liar on a topic like this.
I will just say - there is no way in hell *I* could put 30 rds of .45ACP accurately on target in 6 seconds. Not even with a higher capacity platform like the Glock 21 or one of the double-stack 1911 clones. Certainly not with my 8rd magazines in my Colt.
For clarity:
Quote:
I have dumped 30 rounds with both my AR-15 and .45 ACP in less than six seconds difference due to magazine changes
I did not dump 30 rounds of .45 ACP in less than six seconds. I dumped 30 rounds from both my AR-15 and .45 ACP, mostly on target, both individually timed. The aim (pun intended) was to compare the difference between the AR and .45. The difference was just less than six seconds (mostly due to two magazine changes for the .45) not the total time to discharge the weapon on target.
I don't recall the overall time. The distance was about 10 yards. None of that mattered. It was an exercise to prove that the rate of fire was the same across both platforms - one round discharged per trigger actuation. The accuracy was roughly the same in this case. Had I been 25 yards out, I would expect the AR to win handily.
And the gadget factor can't be ignored. Guys like gadgets that they can customize and "pimp out," and the AR-15 modular design fits that pleasure better than nearly any other gun .
..this is the #1 reason
the after market tricks....it can fit a big man....a little man...a big woman...a little woman
and every add on you would ever want....low maintenance
plus.....it's a damn fun as **** gun to shoot
ignorant people think it's firing anti tank rounds....it's also a 22
We should be happy that they use that weapon because it's hard to conceal and it's easy to see them coming. You would think when teachers and administrators saw someone coming holding one that they would go into lockdown mode ... I don't know what they're doing having all these doors wide open with law enforcement that just stands outside. It would be prudent to have lockdown alarms at schools with deadbolts on doors like how we used to have duck and cover drills during the cold war. They could even have the doors automatically lock.
If we ban assault rifles they will start using pistols which they can conceal in their backpack and pull out right in the middle of class and we will be having the same arguments about banning handguns and pretty soon we'll have 5 round magazines in our pistols which is unacceptable.
When it comes to magazine size and handguns themselves you can't give an inch with Democrats because they will try to take a mile... The most I would support is raising the age of buying a gun to 21.
I would argue a 9mm in proficient hands with the right ammo can be more dangerous in closed quarters situations. Better maneuverability, easier to take cover and conceal. You can't conceal an AR-15. We all know I'm right here. Don't fall for the lefts rhetoric that they will stop with "assault weapons."
yes there are pistols that can be just as lethal in a close quarters situation
i am anti-gun but i made it 66yrs so far by not lollygagging in seemingly dangerous situations
If for some reason you like the .223 round but don't plan to shoot people, the Ruger Mini-14 is a fine firearm.
Tell you what. We're looking for volunteers to prove your point at the local range. We need someone to take a magazine full of rounds from a Mini-14, thus proving that a Mini-14 is less lethal than an AR. Care to volunteer?
The AR-15 has an allure in the American zeitgeist that other rifles don't have.
Despite lacking the fully automatic firing mode, the AR-15 is otherwise more effectively designed as an offensive anti-personnel weapon than other firearms (excepting other similarly designed weapons such as the civilianized AK-47). Fully automatic firing isn't the only thing that makes it different from a hunting rifle in that respect. The AR-15 has ergonomics tuned to make it a more effective offensive anti-personnel weapon. It's inexpensively customizable to make it even more effective for such a purpose.
There are certainly other firearms that have very similar basic capabilities. Often mentioned (for good reason) is the Ruger Mini-14, which has the military M-14 as its basis of design. The Mini-14, although being also semi-automatic and firing the same .233 round, is still not as efficient as an offensive anti-personnel rifle as the AR-15. If for some reason you like the .223 round but don't plan to shoot people, the Ruger Mini-14 is a fine firearm.
But the AR-15 design is no longer under Colt's patent, which means other manufacturers have jumped into the ring, which means it's cheaper. You can find basic AR-15 rifles for less than a Glock pistol.
And the gadget factor can't be ignored. Guys like gadgets that they can customize and "pimp out," and the AR-15 modular design fits that pleasure better than nearly any other gun (except perhaps a 1911). The ability to accessorize a gun is a major marketing factor. Not having plenty of aftermarket accessories negatively affects a gun's market potential. If anything would attract me to an AR-15, it would be the gadget factor...otherwise there are other rifles that better fit my rifle requirements.
It's not all a matter of intentional marketing--but through all its appearances in American media, from the 70s on, the M-16 became a symbol of American baddassery, both for good and for bad. Nobody buys a Mini-14 to look badass. Not everyone who buys an AR-15 is trying to be badass, but when someone thinks a gun will make him the biggest badass, an AR-15 is what he buys.
Their are other firearms that can be very nearly as destructive as offensive anti-personnel weapons, but the AR-15 is uniquely that symbol in the national zeitgeist.
I won't deny that.....but I wonder if most of the shooters see it the way I do. That is, in its 4-5 components, it's just another tool bag in the car.......but if needed, it can be a ready weapons system in under a minute.
As far as "gadgets", well, I shy away from those for quite a few reasons. As someone who rests the rifle in the hand of the non firing side, I see the vertical forward grip as one of the more stupid things for now the non firing arm is tense, potentially pulling the gun off target to that side. More gadgets means more things to break. Finally, gadgets can be a massive headache of buyer beware for the salesman may not know the legality of something.......and may not care. He just wants to make a sale. Rather learned that when I was buying Uzis.
As to professional vs amateur, that does produce an interesting contradiction of things. I take my shooting very seriously. At least in one view point or so, I am a professional shooter and hence, gadgetry means even less to me. As a professional shooter, I am oriented to what they would have me do if they called me up (granted, at my age, that is really scrapping the barrel) and that is take out targets.
But to those who use the gadgets, to me where many of them are "the amateurs",are they not as serious as I am, would the thought of taking out elements of the opposing force being even further from their minds?
When I am at the range and practicing on silhouettes, I have often pictured someone asking me, "Who are you shooting at, woman? Terrorists?"......but no one ever has except to ask me what kind of -15 is that (it's the -10 with 7.62) or am I shooting a 50 cal pistol (H&K USP).........I guess with my concentration, that look, they figure they better not disturb me.
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Originally Posted by Mad_Jasper
........I don't recall the overall time. The distance was about 10 yards. None of that mattered. It was an exercise to prove that the rate of fire was the same across both platforms - one round discharged per trigger actuation. The accuracy was roughly the same in this case. Had I been 25 yards out, I would expect the AR to win handily.
Difficult to say because for me, 25 yards is a standard pistol engagement, not 15 which is qual distance, and I want to put it out to 35. So I am training at those distances, regularly (in pre pandemic times)........so might it be easier to engage that "on the fly"?
As to the -15, 50 yards is rather the minimum I use it at, maybe 35 to cover the upper useful range of the USP but really......at 50 yards, to me with the -15, that is rather shooting point blank.
The question to ask is why the AR15 is the one that is favored by the mentally disturbed young men who buy it to shoot up schools and other crowded places. Maybe something to do with how it is marketed? People do respond to advertisements, you know.
The first time the AR15 was used in a mass shooting that I can remember was Aurora Movie theatre shooting (2012). The media went wild, called it a gun of war, and probably inspired a lot of mass shooters to do the same. Since 2012, the AR15 platform was the gun of choice, including the shortly thereafter Sandy Hook.
So let's talk before 2012:
The VTech shooting, Ft Hood, and Columbine came to mind.
The VTech and Ft Hood shooter involved handguns (VTech is still one of the deadliest shootings of all time, and the deadliest school shooting), Columbine kids used shotguns and handguns.
The question to ask is why the AR15 is the one that is favored by the mentally disturbed young men who buy it to shoot up schools and other crowded places. Maybe something to do with how it is marketed? People do respond to advertisements, you know.
Well if you are going to blame the manufacturers for how they advertise their products maybe we should also blame every action movie, first shooter video games and the top military units like the Navy Seals that use black and scary guns?
If you think about the violence in movies the very popular "John Wick" trilogy is very bloody. They feature a highly trained assassin that murders people with pencils, knives but mostly guns with graphic close up bloody shots of a bullet to the chest then the head. The main character has killed approx. 299 people in the 3 movies.
When it comes to a handgun V an AR15 both are semi auto which means one pull of the trigger sends one bullet. Both weapons takes a second to reload. Both in the hands of a deranged murderer are deadly but then again so is a car, a knife and even a pencil.
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