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Old 09-03-2022, 09:18 PM
 
Location: West Virginia
5,044 posts, read 2,400,470 times
Reputation: 3590

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponderosa View Post
Opposition to Germany's reliance on Russian energy and nordstream 2 predates Trump. It was a cornerstone of the Obama foreign policy and Biden, as VP, was critical. In fact, opposition to NS2 was one of the rare points of agreement among both Republicans and Democrats in both the House and the Senate. Merkel was hell bent on moving forward, though. She has publicly accepted responsibility for foolishly believing in the basic decency of Russians and trusting them.
Opposition on the part of the Biden's probably has more than a little to do with their buddies in Ukraine if we are talking pipelines. For Europe their are only a couple look at a map.i know this because I lived in Poland. That was several decades ago the coldest winter ever and Russia played these same games.

It has to go through the Ukraine or Belarus/Kaliningrad.

 
Old 09-03-2022, 09:19 PM
 
Location: Honolulu, HI
24,636 posts, read 9,464,279 times
Reputation: 22978
Quote:
Originally Posted by lookingaround12345 View Post
Moral of the story: allowing yourself to be in a position to be blackmailed by Russians sort of sucks. Duh.
Trump warned Germany, and they laughed.

In it’s obsession to “go green” Europe sold its soul to the devil and the chickens are coming home to roost.
 
Old 09-03-2022, 09:22 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
29,823 posts, read 24,913,395 times
Reputation: 28520
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaraC View Post
Yes, worldwide fuel transportation standoff.

A purposeful upset in the commerce of fuel, due to national diplomatic issues and battles.

But I just pointed out that it is not a worldwide standoff. This is a regional/European issue at best. North and South America is not running out of fuel. Asia and Africa is not running out of fuel. In fact, China is buying it for less than the Europeans can due to all the sanctions, and selling it to Europe for a cool easy profit. The west made the suggestion that the world should go along with us in sanctioning Russia and not buying their fuel, but most of the world was not swayed. As such, most of the world is just dealing with elevated prices. There is no standoff around the world. Only in Europe.


It is unfortunate that this blunder has happened, but it did. The consequences of this blunder don't represent a worldwide catastrophe though, sorry to disappoint. If a bunch of Germans froze, it wouldn't be the first time. Not hoping for it, but when you make mistakes, you get unfortunate consequences. That's just life.
 
Old 09-03-2022, 09:23 PM
 
Location: USA
31,058 posts, read 22,086,243 times
Reputation: 19087
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocko20 View Post
Trump warned Germany, and they laughed.

In it’s obsession to “go green” Europe sold its soul to the devil and the chickens are coming home to roost.
So true, their "obsession " to go green brought them to burn more fossil fuels, from Russia no less
 
Old 09-03-2022, 09:24 PM
 
Location: NE Mississippi
25,575 posts, read 17,293,027 times
Reputation: 37334
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kibby View Post
.................Supply and demand. Biden has reduced our Supply, promised what he won’t be able to deliver to Europe.
Prices go way up for everybody. Our LNG supply for export has been cut in half due to the Plant in Freeport and the ROA regulations that have slowed it going back to production ….. and that is only one of the issues.
I admit to having no idea what you are talking about:
1) Biden has reduced the supply of LNG? US LNG exports have been cut in half?............ Is that a fact?
2) "Plant in Freeport and ROA regulations"? ...... You really got me baffled now. I know there was an accident in Freeport LNG, but did it really cut exports in half?.... Doesn't look like it.



As far as I can see, Biden's promise of LNG to Europe has exceeded expectations. Only 20% came from Freeport. I imagine the rest came from Sabine.
https://www.reuters.com/business/ene...se-2022-07-26/


Things are going to get expensive in Europe, that's for sure. And they will remain expensive since Europe is determined to do without Russian gas. But Europe now has their gas tanks nearly 80% full and new LNG ships coming in every day. Hopefully, Europe will do fine with no loss of life from the cold.


Russia will be economically destroyed by this adventure of theirs. Hopefully they will become a version of North Korea, unable to send a real navy to sea or field an army.
 
Old 09-03-2022, 09:27 PM
 
Location: NE Mississippi
25,575 posts, read 17,293,027 times
Reputation: 37334
Quote:
Originally Posted by andywire View Post
But I just pointed out that it is not a worldwide standoff. This is a regional/European issue at best. North and South America is not running out of fuel. Asia and Africa is not running out of fuel. In fact, China is buying it for less than the Europeans can due to all the sanctions, and selling it to Europe for a cool easy profit............
But the end result is, Europe is getting gas. That's what the Russians tried to prevent.
And since Europe is getting gas - and they are - there will be no pressure from Europe to end the war.
Russia sill loses.
 
Old 09-03-2022, 09:30 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
29,823 posts, read 24,913,395 times
Reputation: 28520
Quote:
Originally Posted by Listener2307 View Post
But the end result is, Europe is getting gas. That's what the Russians tried to prevent.
And since Europe is getting gas - and they are - there will be no pressure from Europe to end the war.
Russia sill loses.

That's assuming Europe and the west doesn't give up first. We are essentially signing up for a long term suffering contest with Russia, and they have a whole hell of a lot more experience at this than we do. There are much smarter and funner ways to win against Russia with much better odds of winning for the west.


A "fight" of this nature will end in no one winning in the end. We could come out on top perhaps. Life would be no better than before, but it beats losing. China would eat everyone's lunch in the end though after we get done wasting our resources on Russia.
 
Old 09-03-2022, 09:52 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
7,345 posts, read 3,819,045 times
Reputation: 5321
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaraC View Post
I guess I wouldn't know about that.
How does elephant in the room strike you?
 
Old 09-03-2022, 09:54 PM
Status: "I don't understand. But I don't care, so it works out." (set 8 days ago)
 
35,634 posts, read 17,975,706 times
Reputation: 50663
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattja View Post
How does elephant in the room strike you?
What?
 
Old 09-03-2022, 09:55 PM
 
2,517 posts, read 1,300,113 times
Reputation: 1673
Obama, Trump and Biden friendly "adviced" Germany to stop Nord Stream promising super cheap American gas.

So, Nord Stream was stopped as its maintenance was prohibited by US sanctions.

Germans complain now that "super cheap" American natural gas costs $3,000 compared to Russian one that costs $200.
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