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Old 10-04-2022, 09:55 AM
 
13,620 posts, read 4,940,342 times
Reputation: 9696

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyHobkins View Post
We should start by calling them Indians again instead of "Native American" which is a term that started in the 1990's. The term "Indian" in reference to people of Americas meaning "Gente di dios" "people of God" came hundreds of years before they called Indians from India. People used to call Indians from India, Hindu's, and India never existed as a country until 1948.
They were called Indians, because when Columbus sailed west, he thought he had circled the globe and arrived at the East Indies. The term "Indies" is derived from the Indus River, and was used by Europeans to refer to India, Southeast Asia, Indonesia and surrounding islands. Not surprising that Columbus thought he was in the East Indies - that was his goal, and he came upon tropical islands populated by darker-skinned natives.

Native Americans or Indigenous People are more correct names, but kind of a mouthful which is why I still use the term indian sometimes.

 
Old 10-04-2022, 09:56 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
6,793 posts, read 5,666,526 times
Reputation: 5661
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freesponge View Post
Imaging having a Native American lineage and your people lived off the land for over 10,000 years and then after 9,500 years , a population came from other side of the pond and you even welcomed them , you were kind to them but then shiploads came in with enforcements and introduced European diseases that the people of Americas had no immunity to , and also brought animals and crops that destroyed the local habitat

Then in the name of religion, these new colonists deforested all of the lush bio diverse land and built railroads and forced artificial farm agriculture with forced chemicals for manipulative excess food supply chains and caging and grooming of animals that previously ran free and were only hunted for necessary food consumption not for pleasure nor for sport.

Then these new colonists borrowed what was shared for the tribe for over 9,000 years and for a note of paper said “now you can’t use it ever ever again we bought it … sometimes more often they just stole it

Mass loads of natives died of small pox and they didn’t suffer alone , brought into the new world were African slaves on ropes and treated like animals and beat….

Then came millions upon millions of miles of cement roads and monotonous highways on what used to be unique sacred bio diverse natural habitat land , 7-lane cement and massive Walmart parking lots because they don’t feel like parallel parking … and massive empty space because suburban zoners don’t like the look of building up to conserve natural space but every family must have a one-story singular family home with a hard and a backyard smoker to cook animals that were slaughtered on farms where those animals used to roam free in America’s native woodlands

It’s so sad

And then the last straw.. due to the people who stole the land . The new Americans , all of us, who overconsumption everything and litter with billions of tons of plastic and city dumps and super fund sites, and waste all trees for paper , we deplete our resources so Federal Govt stipulates regulatory laws you can’t hunt here you can’t fish here you can’t live how you lived for 9500 years preserving the land perfectly fine ….

Who are we to tell these natives they can’t do what they did for 9500 years because of OUR overconsumption, why do we then mock that they have casinos when we forced that situation on them which we now are revoking by having states build MGM casinos ?

Why don’t we acknowledge what American ancestors did to native people the way Germany acknowledges their WW2 dark period and provides restitution and education to fix it? I feel guilty
Everything you noted is warranted but to feel guilty is just silly.... Why would you feel guilty over something YOU DID NOT DO???
 
Old 10-04-2022, 09:57 AM
 
8,425 posts, read 12,192,341 times
Reputation: 4882
Exceptions are made for our aboriginal Americans who are still allowed to hunt salmon and whales in the manner they have done for centuries. Others are barred by law.
 
Old 10-04-2022, 09:59 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
6,793 posts, read 5,666,526 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manigault View Post
Exceptions are made for our aboriginal Americans who are still allowed to hunt salmon and whales in the manner they have done for centuries. Others are barred by law.
Wasn't that reinstated a few years back?
 
Old 10-04-2022, 10:00 AM
 
Location: Western PA
10,876 posts, read 4,555,654 times
Reputation: 6733
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisC View Post
I wouldn't mind at all if Native Americans were not held to the repressive environmental laws that the rest of us are.

we're not.
 
Old 10-04-2022, 10:08 AM
 
9,229 posts, read 8,554,984 times
Reputation: 14775
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freesponge View Post
...
Then in the name of religion, these new colonists deforested all of the lush bio diverse land and built railroads and forced artificial farm agriculture with forced chemicals for manipulative excess food supply chains and caging and grooming of animals that previously ran free and were only hunted for necessary food consumption not for pleasure nor for sport. ...
I sense you haven't visited many NA reservations.

DH and I live in WA and we pass through a number of reservations as we travel. They clear cut, bulldoze, and destroy waterways with the best of them -- in some cases they are worse, and the environmental protections do not extend to their territories. I respect NAs, but do not glorify them. They are human with all the same foibles and weaknesses. They commit all the same sins. They took slaves, marauded other tribes, and drove thousands of bison over cliffs for their "winter kill."

Respect others, but do not think any humans are above basic animal nature. Indeed, we are lower than animals because animals -- as far as we've observed, are not cruel.
 
Old 10-04-2022, 10:13 AM
 
1,198 posts, read 1,626,877 times
Reputation: 2435
I have no input on legal exceptions, but do want to say something about the opening narrative. I've barely scratched the surface of Native American history after the first Europeans showed up, but I have done some reading on it and I assure you that the relationships between Native American tribes and Europeans were much more complex, tumultuous, and -interesting- than what is supported by the story that Europeans simply walked in, declared the land theirs, and killed off the peaceful, native people. Note that these complexities were not only between the Europeans and Native Americans in general, but also between individual Native American tribes and groups of Europeans of different descent. Check out the history of the fur trade for a synopsis of some examples.
 
Old 10-04-2022, 10:18 AM
 
10,487 posts, read 7,019,483 times
Reputation: 11587
Drive through the backroads of New England and you will see tombstones of early settler innocent children occasionally on the sides of roads. Read through these tombstones and you will find horrific stories, about little children sleeping at night, having their homes burnt down, or being kidnapped, raped and young girls death by scalping.
 
Old 10-04-2022, 10:35 AM
 
10,487 posts, read 7,019,483 times
Reputation: 11587
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo58 View Post
They were called Indians, because when Columbus sailed west, he thought he had circled the globe and arrived at the East Indies. The term "Indies" is derived from the Indus River, and was used by Europeans to refer to India, Southeast Asia, Indonesia and surrounding islands. Not surprising that Columbus thought he was in the East Indies - that was his goal, and he came upon tropical islands populated by darker-skinned natives.

Native Americans or Indigenous People are more correct names, but kind of a mouthful which is why I still use the term indian sometimes.
The Indus river is 2,000 miles away from the East Indies, and India used to be called Hindustan and the people there were called Hindus past WWII. Even if Columbus thought he was in the Indies the people there are Asian, not Indian decent.

If you just look at Columbus diary, which he didn't write in great in Spanish, so in his written accounts he called the Indians "Una gente in Dios". A people in God. In God. In Dios. Indians. It's a perfectly noble and respectable word.

The whole idea he thought he was in India or the indies, is completely silly. The Spanish were already in the East Indies at the time creating an empire and knew there difference of the peoples.

Even if want to argue Columbus thought he was in the East Indies, he brought back natives to the Spanish, who would have called him out right there and then for that type of idiocy.
 
Old 10-04-2022, 10:52 AM
 
62,997 posts, read 29,178,555 times
Reputation: 18605
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freesponge View Post
Imaging having a Native American lineage and your people lived off the land for over 10,000 years and then after 9,500 years , a population came from other side of the pond and you even welcomed them , you were kind to them but then shiploads came in with enforcements and introduced European diseases that the people of Americas had no immunity to , and also brought animals and crops that destroyed the local habitat

Then in the name of religion, these new colonists deforested all of the lush bio diverse land and built railroads and forced artificial farm agriculture with forced chemicals for manipulative excess food supply chains and caging and grooming of animals that previously ran free and were only hunted for necessary food consumption not for pleasure nor for sport.

Then these new colonists borrowed what was shared for the tribe for over 9,000 years and for a note of paper said “now you can’t use it ever ever again we bought it … sometimes more often they just stole it

Mass loads of natives died of small pox and they didn’t suffer alone , brought into the new world were African slaves on ropes and treated like animals and beat….

Then came millions upon millions of miles of cement roads and monotonous highways on what used to be unique sacred bio diverse natural habitat land , 7-lane cement and massive Walmart parking lots because they don’t feel like parallel parking … and massive empty space because suburban zoners don’t like the look of building up to conserve natural space but every family must have a one-story singular family home with a hard and a backyard smoker to cook animals that were slaughtered on farms where those animals used to roam free in America’s native woodlands

It’s so sad

And then the last straw.. due to the people who stole the land . The new Americans , all of us, who overconsumption everything and litter with billions of tons of plastic and city dumps and super fund sites, and waste all trees for paper , we deplete our resources so Federal Govt stipulates regulatory laws you can’t hunt here you can’t fish here you can’t live how you lived for 9500 years preserving the land perfectly fine ….

Who are we to tell these natives they can’t do what they did for 9500 years because of OUR overconsumption, why do we then mock that they have casinos when we forced that situation on them which we now are revoking by having states build MGM casinos ?

Why don’t we acknowledge what American ancestors did to native people the way Germany acknowledges their WW2 dark period and provides restitution and education to fix it? I feel guilty
What's sad is people like you living in a long ago past. First (if they were) does not make one a native. Everyone had the right to migrate here long ago when there were no immigration laws, a country or natives to this land way back then as they migrated here to. No special accommodations or considerations for anyone today nor should there be.
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