Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Of course, no one is mentioning the 800 lb gorilla in the 3 piece suit.
GUNS are not dangerous.
PEOPLE are dangerous - armed or not.
. . .
Disarming victims does nothing to stop DANGEROUS people.
. . .
The megabuck question : WHY are there MORE shootings per capita TODAY than in 1920s, when one could easily pick up an automatic submachine gun, shipped by U.S. mail no less?
It's not "scary guns."
Perhaps "something" is tipping over the balance?
[] Mental illness?
[] Government sponsored mental illness?
[] Deliberate acts by agent provocateurs?
[] {your idea here}
. . .
(BEFORE 1930s and the NFA, there was no bar to owning semi-automatic or fully automatic weapons if one was a "free" American. After 1933, hmmmmmm....)
. . .
For those who see no "NEED" to shoot many shells, consider the humble shotgun.
Generally, 12 gauge 2¾-inch shells hold nine to 12, 00-buck pellets; 3-inch shells hold 12 to 15 and 3½-inch loads like Remington's Express Magnum hold up to 18. In general, longer length means more pellets, more energy, more recoil and less magazine capacity.
*** 9 to 18 pellets, depending.
So with one pull of the trigger, a shotgun can send a expanding cone of many pellets down range.
(Swooning alert!)
THE ONLY LEGITIMATE GUN CONTROL IS HITTING WHAT YOU AIM AT.
As for "fear of scary guns," it might be prudent to give firearm safety courses to schoolchildren, so they know better.
I can't vote because you didn't give us a choice between regular guns and assault rifles. Why do average citizens need a gun that can fire multiple rounds in a minute?
Also, I don't want potentially violent felons who are out on bail owning guns, so I like the "by permission of government" choice over the "as an endowed right" one. Let's keep guns out of the hands of people who are most likely to misuse them and let's keep our kids safe.
I can't vote because you didn't give us a choice between regular guns and assault rifles. Why do average citizens need a gun that can fire multiple rounds in a minute?
Also, I don't want potentially violent felons who are out on bail owning guns, so I like the "by permission of government" choice over the "as an endowed right" one. Let's keep guns out of the hands of people who are most likely to misuse them and let's keep our kids safe.
Felon's are not allowed to own or posses firearms. Of course criminals don't much care about laws.
I can't vote because you didn't give us a choice between regular guns and assault rifles. Why do average citizens need a gun that can fire multiple rounds in a minute?
Also, I don't want potentially violent felons who are out on bail owning guns, so I like the "by permission of government" choice over the "as an endowed right" one. Let's keep guns out of the hands of people who are most likely to misuse them and let's keep our kids safe.
Because I'm a non-gun owner and don't know the right terminology? That doesn't mean I don't have a point.
Funny you should mention muskets.
Do you think any self-respecting school shooter will attempt to mow down the kiddies with a musket? Are they going to stand around and wait for him to reload?
Except they aren't. The majority of mass shootings use handguns. Actually the majority of firearms related incidents, suicides, mass shootings, etc are committed with handguns. Why aren't we trying to ban those ?
I can't vote because you didn't give us a choice between regular guns and assault rifles. Why do average citizens need a gun that can fire multiple rounds in a minute?
Also, I don't want potentially violent felons who are out on bail owning guns, so I like the "by permission of government" choice over the "as an endowed right" one. Let's keep guns out of the hands of people who are most likely to misuse them and let's keep our kids safe.
Any gun (except black powder muskets, and even they can if trained) easily fire multiple rounds a minute. Revolvers, bolt action rifles, pump shotguns. No problem.
You're argument just doesn't add up or hold water. To actually engage in this debate the onus is on you to better understand if you want gun rights people to take you seriously.
I'll just briefly explain a few points that I as a gun rights advocate will claim.
1- the purpose of the 2a HAS NOTHING to do with hunting. Any argument even roughly equating gun ownership rights to hunting is a falacy to confuse and obfuscate the issue.
2- the purpose of the 2a is solely to keep governments honest to prevent them from becoming totalitarian, and to provide a mechanism for individuals to exercise self defense. The government is supposed to fear wronging it's citizens or trying to strip them of their rights. This is the ultimate check on run away power.
3- when the 2a was crafted the common citizen was able to own military equivalent guns and weapons private citizens even owned actual cannons.
4- semi automatic guns that I believe you are referring to are widely in circulation in the united states. There are like 100-200 million semi auto guns in this country. No one really knows for sure. A semi automatic is you pull the trigger once and it shoots. They are very common and in wide circulation. Why should law abiding citizens not be able to defend themselves against criminals using semi automatic guns, with semi automatic guns themselves? If there was a semi automatic ban only the law abiding people that you don't have to worry about in the first place are now unable to effectively defend themselves from better armed criminals. How is that ok? I want my 5 ft tall wife to be able to defend my home with an AR-15 if I'm not around to do so. Do you know most home invasions have multiple invaders, and it's very common to miss shots while shooting at moving targets under stress.
Let me tell you a little about gun free zones. Who follows those laws? Are you safer in a gun free zone? Have you ever stopped to consider this? Seriously.... Think about it. Are criminals going to follow the law? By their very nature they are criminals and willing to break the law. So that means the only people who follow the laws for guj free zones are law following law abiding citizens the very people who would be capable to defend and protect but they can't because they are worried about getting in trouble so they follow the law. The criminals know that gun free zones are defenseless targets.
Let's start making rules to allow citizens to protect themselves.
Guns are the only thing where when something terrible happens everyone else not involved is punished and has their rights incrementally chipped away.
When a rapist commits crimes there are no calls to castrate innocent men?
When a drunk driver mows over a family there are no calls to ban alcohol or 6000lb SUVs?
Why is it whenever there is a shooting the first reaction is to punish and chip away at the rights of those who are not a party to the tragedy and are just as outraged as everyone else is?
Politicians use these events to push their agenda to disarm us. They aren't interested in actually solving school shootings because then they lose a powerful tool to drive "gun reform" and strip is of our rights. Maybe the root question you should be asking is why does the government want to disarm their citizens.
Because I'm a non-gun owner and don't know the right terminology? That doesn't mean I don't have a point.
Funny you should mention muskets.
Do you think any self-respecting school shooter will attempt to mow down the kiddies with a musket? Are they going to stand around and wait for him to reload?
Lots of omissions in the quotes that didn't copy. The bullets from an AR-15 are no more destructive than bullets from any other centerfire rifle, in fact they are less destructive and for that reason are not allowed for hunting use in many states. Nearly all centerfire rifle cartridges have higher velocities than handguns and cause far more tissue damage.
All modern firearms can fire multiple rounds per minute. I can fire 15 rounds per minute from a bolt action rifle without too much trouble, and that rifle is more powerful than an AR-15. The first acknowledged mass shooter in the US, Charles Whitman, killed 11 people and injured 31 in 1966, all with bolt action rifles. He stabbed his wife and his mother to death.
I do think there are some law changes that would help prevent mass shootings. Disallow sale of semi-automatic firearms to anyone under 21 would be a start, given what we know about the mental development of young people. That's the law for handguns already. And before anyone points out that soldiers are carrying full automatic firearms at age 17 or 18, no one in the military carries a firearm except when supervised and under defined rules in specific situations.
Cant answer this poll. Limited choices. There was a reason for the Thompson Sub machine gun tax out of existence.
High crime rates.
Today we have a party which thinks more of these weapons will make our lives safer. The reality is with weaker carry laws police will have no reason to stop someone, who is a criminal or mentally ill before damage is done.
Police are warning of the danger.
If you want a good police force you need to give them the tools. Part of those tools are smart laws not dense laws.
Lots of omissions in the quotes that didn't copy. The bullets from an AR-15 are no more destructive than bullets from any other centerfire rifle, in fact they are less destructive and for that reason are not allowed for hunting use in many states. Nearly all centerfire rifle cartridges have higher velocities than handguns and cause far more tissue damage.
All modern firearms can fire multiple rounds per minute. I can fire 15 rounds per minute from a bolt action rifle without too much trouble, and that rifle is more powerful than an AR-15. The first acknowledged mass shooter in the US, Charles Whitman, killed 11 people and injured 31 in 1966, all with bolt action rifles. He stabbed his wife and his mother to death.
I do think there are some law changes that would help prevent mass shootings. Disallow sale of semi-automatic firearms to anyone under 21 would be a start, given what we know about the mental development of young people. That's the law for handguns already. And before anyone points out that soldiers are carrying full automatic firearms at age 17 or 18, no one in the military carries a firearm except when supervised and under defined rules in specific situations.
The same people screaming about an ar-15 would act like they're totally ok with people owning a mini-14 with wooden stock. Even funnier they would be totally ok with actual weapons of war like an m1 garand.
AR-15 shoot relatively small bullets. There are far deadlier semi auto guns out there. In fact the US military is upgrading their fleet of m4s and m16s because the 5.56 cartridge is no longer effective enough. They are going to more powerful cartridges with better performance.
And this talk about shooting a musket vs an AR 15, I'll be totally honest 1 bullet of each the musket would be far more devastating. The amount of terminal energy in the .58 caliber musket would be devastating it's essentially a slug. No thanks.
Ar15s are absolutely deadly, however it's disingenuous to equate them as some perfect killing machine when there are far better choices that aren't even brought up. Its just a friggin talking point that's repeated as nasuem.
In fact, the video of the killer i saw they were walking around with what sure looks like is a keltec sub2000. For those who don't know it's a pistol caliber carbine. Essentially it's a 9mm pistol shooting pistol ammo with a longer barrel and a shoulder stock.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
