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Old 06-12-2023, 08:44 AM
 
21,430 posts, read 7,464,101 times
Reputation: 13233

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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
No crime = no obstruction of justice. I can't make it any more clear.
...
Trump has demonstrated consciousness of guilt. He already knew he was not entitled to keep government documents, and that is why he lied to the government about having them.

It is also why he lied to his own attorneys about them, keeping the location of most of the materials secret from them (shuffling them from room to room) even as the attorneys were tasked with conducting a survey.

Let me just say that these charges are far from the most serious ones Trump is potentially facing, but the fact that he would even try such a hairbrained shenanigan after everything else he has been involved in shows that the man is unworthy of any position of trust. Trump fans should be ashamed of him.

 
Old 06-12-2023, 08:44 AM
 
13,212 posts, read 21,837,587 times
Reputation: 14130
Quote:
Originally Posted by gordo View Post
I wish that they waited until just before the election to do this. It would have made Trump even more popular and likely to win the election.
Quite the opposite to those of us who actually care about the country, as opposed to a fascist who makes the small minded masses feel good about themselves.
 
Old 06-12-2023, 08:46 AM
 
Location: Kansas City, MISSOURI
20,872 posts, read 9,550,882 times
Reputation: 15598
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
And yet a DC Federal Court Judge ruled EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE in the 2012 Clinton case.
Wrong. The PRA explicitly defines personal from presidential records:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What are “personal records” under the Presidential Records Act (PRA)?

Under the PRA, "’personal records’ means all documentary materials of a purely private or nonpublic character which do not relate to or have an effect upon the carrying out of the constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President.” This includes

(A) diaries, journals, or other personal notes serving as the functional equivalent of a diary or journal which are not prepared or utilized for, or circulated or communicated in the course of, transacting Government business;

(B) materials relating to private political associations, and having no relation to or direct effect upon the carrying out of constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President; and

(C) materials relating exclusively to the President’s own election to the office of the Presidency; and materials directly relating to the election of a particular individual or individuals to Federal, State, or local office, which have no relation to or direct effect upon the carrying out of constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President

What are “Presidential records” under the Presidential Records Act (PRA)?

"’Presidential records’ means documentary materials created or received by the President, the President’s immediate staff, or a unit or individual of the Executive Office of the President whose function is to advise or assist the President, in the course of conducting activities which relate to or have an effect upon the carrying out of the constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President.”


Source

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There is no way in God's green earth military and classified documents could ever be considered "personal records."
 
Old 06-12-2023, 08:48 AM
 
Location: Long Island
57,311 posts, read 26,236,916 times
Reputation: 15651
It appears that judge Cannon may preside over the trial, I thought she was just there for the arraignment. If she remains it will be interesting to see a Trump appointed judges preside over his trial.
 
Old 06-12-2023, 08:50 AM
 
Location: Columbia, SC
37,222 posts, read 19,225,735 times
Reputation: 14918
Quote:
Originally Posted by atadytic19 View Post
When did deflection become a defense to crimes?

Yall are always going : "look over tlover.
You think of you get arrested for burglary you can ask "what about Hillary's emails" and all of a sudden be not guilty?

It doesn't matter what else someone else did.
Trump committed a crime so his butt needs to be locked up.

Even Pence is now coming off as a troll. He is calling for tge AG to come out and explain charges.

1st off the AG doesn't owe him anything
2nd there is a special council who already explained charges

Pence is already seen as a loser but his trolling just makes him seem like an even bigger loser.
This investigation and the resulting indictments are Jack Smith’s baby. Garland refused to get involved, even if he was kept in the loop about what was going on.

Pence is a wimp and an idiot who is grandstanding to try to court Trump’s base who hate the ground he walks on because he confirmed the election results. Pence is the embodiment of a loser.
 
Old 06-12-2023, 08:51 AM
 
Location: Long Island
57,311 posts, read 26,236,916 times
Reputation: 15651
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
It requires an investigation of a crime. There was no crime. Thank the 2012 Clinton ruling for that.
The intent after discovery is completely different, cooperation vs obstruction.
 
Old 06-12-2023, 08:51 AM
 
11,988 posts, read 5,298,736 times
Reputation: 7284
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
And yet a DC Federal Court Judge ruled EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE in the 2012 Clinton case.
Clinton didn’t refuse a request from NARA to return the docs.

Apples/Oranges, but you should know that.
 
Old 06-12-2023, 08:57 AM
 
21,430 posts, read 7,464,101 times
Reputation: 13233
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Bond 007 View Post
...
There is no way in God's green earth military and classified documents could ever be considered "personal records."
I think that might fall under the 'Divine Right of Kings/Absolute Monarchy' category of governance.

*See footnotes under Aethelred II 'the Unready', Edward I 'Longshanks" and Charles I
 
Old 06-12-2023, 08:59 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,061 posts, read 44,866,510 times
Reputation: 13718
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hesychios View Post
Trump has demonstrated consciousness of guilt. He already knew he was not entitled to keep government documents, and that is why he lied to the government about having them.
100% incorrect. Here's where you're hitting the wall...

The 2012 DC Federal Court decision established the legal precedent that according to the PRA, POTUS gets to determine which records are personal AND POTUS has the ability to share those records with others (the biographer who had no security clearance, in the Clinton case).

This is where Federal Courts acting to protect Democrats comes back to bite them in the butt. Good for the goose = good for the gander.
 
Old 06-12-2023, 09:02 AM
 
Location: Columbia, SC
37,222 posts, read 19,225,735 times
Reputation: 14918
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Well, the DC Federal District Court disagrees with your unprofessional assessment.

Why else do you think the DOJ wouldn't mount this farce in DC? They KNOW it's bogus.
More likely it came down in Florida anticipating that the Trump legal team would petition for a change of venue from D.C. as a delaying tactic, and Smith didn’t want to be impeded once everything gets under way.

Be advised also that there were two Grand juries seated to investigate the documents since crimes were committed in two locations, and that the one in D.C. is still in session and working. I would imagine there will be superseding indictments coming from them that will offer more details and include a number of people left out of the current set, such as Mark Meadows.

Other than that, no reason I can think of.
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