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Maybe you and I should not talk about art because it has nothing to do with the topic. The topic is the student who expressed his opinion about this piece of work was censored.
My opinions are mostly from my art institute days, so I can be biased.
Anyway, op apologize for being off topic
But is it off topic? For if it is art, it is not defamation but yet, what is the Crucifixion if it is not art (for if it is not art, then we get back to that thing of 2000 years of picturing a man being tortured to death).
A and B. A: It is through art and mythology that are probably the safest way to have religion in public schools (and get by that element of separation of church and state)......for then it is not religion but something else.
B: The thing of the matter is that people often do not see it that way but only see it as one thing and that being religion. I have to wonder if such people believe Dominions, Thrones, and Cherubs for angels for if they do.....then it is mythology for the Bible only mentions Angels and Archangels.
Speak for yourself. There's plenty of good and bad art out there. The works of Picasso, Miro, Pollock, Rothko, Warhol ... all were considered modern art and frowned upon at one point. Fortunately, people did connect to their works, and they are considered classics today.
I don’t believe there is a definitive guide for, nor any legitimate way to declare a piece of art good or bad art. Such a judgement is strictly a matter of subjective individual opinion, and nothing more.
Many people, including yours truly, have seen art which the “experts” declare as works of masterpiece, appear to me at least, better suited for hanging on one’s refrigerator in honor of the kindergartner who created such a masterpiece using finger paint. Others may conversely see the same as worthy of the huge sums of money some people are willing to pay for it. That too is purely subjective opinion, one being just as valid as any other.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81
Wouldn't, then, the discussion of "what is art?" be a valid one for anyone, even students at the high school advanced level?
And there was plenty of bad art created 100 years ago, no doubt, and it has been forgotten. Much like the works of many current artists will be 100 years from now. Why get your knickers in a twist about it now? Just let history sort things out, and if you don't like a particular piece of current art, move on to the next display.
Again, there is no such thing as bad or good art. There is simply art, in many forms, flavors and expressions.
The question at hand is not a judgement of the quality or value of the “artwork” in question, but of the implications and insinuations of the message to which the art communicates, or is generally perceived. In this specific case, the overt message perceived by a very large number, is an overt, inflammatory, and highly insensitive defiling of the most revered religious figure of the largest religion on earth, Christianity, and it’s central figure, Jesus Christ.
There is a distinct lack of nuance, an no room allowing an alternative interpretation in that assessment, regardless of any other subjective opinions relating to quality, good or bad.
It is what it is … an image of Jesus Christ immersed in the “artist’s” own urine. And as such, it naturally communicates an offensive message to anyone with a marginal grasp of decorum, and common decency. Even a nondescript figure submerged in urine is at least an expression in poor taste, but to have it be that of one of the most celebrated and revered figures in human history, is overtly intended to offend, rather than stimulate artistic imagination.
And while it is the recognized right of free expression for an artist to create such “art”, it is also the right of others to reject such offensive imagery as having no educational value belonging to the legitimate education of the young impressionable minds of high school students.
Our schools, Hollywood, DC, the Vatican, many corporations, are all being run by Satanist. I’m not a religious person but it’s even obvious to me that there is a darkness in this country. It’s a spiritual war.
Let me guess, god is in your side? I think I heard this one before.
The topic is the student who expressed his opinion about this piece of work was censored.
He wasn't censored, though, and the school district caved to give the little snowflake his way. The image will no longer be used in the curriculum, although it will be used as a discussion point. From a link provided upthread:
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In a statement, the school district said it “recognizes that the use of the image invokes hurtful responses among many in the community. Because the course curriculum can adequately be covered by discussion and through the utilization of other slides, the image will not be included in the future.
“While the image will not be used in the Theory of Knowledge curriculum going forward,” the statement continues, “it still may be discussed verbally in the context of discussing the confluence of art and censorship, an important issue in addressing the topic of ‘what is art.’”
Score one for conservative cancel culture. How can you discuss a piece of art you haven't seen? Even if the work of art disgusts you, and/or you don't think it's art, at least you've looked at it in order to form an opinion.
I guess every kid in the class will have to look up the image on their phones?
In all periods of art, only a very few artists created excellent art. And of those, only a few of their artworks were stellar - maybe 10–20 works maximum from a lifetime of art. The rest were fairly mediocre. And the majority of artists created pretty bad art. But most of the really dreadful art of the old times is gone - destroyed on the dustheaps of history.
Anyway, I can understand why some "artists" must create P i S S jar art in order to stay relevant. <shrug>
Another understanding shouldn’t be missed … which is understanding why such vile subject matter is promoted as art, which coincides with so many other obvious and deliberate attacks on traditional decency.
Another understanding shouldn’t be missed … which is understanding why such vile subject matter is promoted as art, which coincides with so many other obvious and deliberate attacks on traditional decency.
He wasn't censored, though, and the school district caved to give the little snowflake his way. The image will no longer be used in the curriculum, although it will be used as a discussion point. From a link provided upthread:
Score one for conservative cancel culture. How can you discuss a piece of art you haven't seen? Even if the work of art disgusts you, and/or you don't think it's art, at least you've looked at it in order to form an opinion.
I guess every kid in the class will have to look up the image on their phones?
Yes indeed. Score 1, but we’re still lagging far behind, aren’t we? There is a lot more cancelling to do …. much of it revolving around the degeneracy of liberal indoctrination of our children in so many other examples.
Let the counter-offensive of this war of cancelation begin in earnest. It’s been a one sided war for far too long. But this day was inevitable. And so is the ultimate victory of decency over degeneracy.
We’re going to win, because contrary to the illusions created by media, the decent folks vastly outnumber the degenerates by a wide margin. The majority have simply been too silent, up until now. But the degeneracy has reached such depths, continued silence is now being understood as no longer a viable option.
If we’re going to save the souls of our children from the satanic cult, as well as our own and that of the nation, we have to understand that compromise is nothing less than surrender. And that understanding is growing rapidly.
Bad news for you, until you wake up and realize it’s good news for everyone, including you.
Last edited by GuyNTexas; 06-12-2023 at 12:50 PM..
Another understanding shouldn’t be missed … which is understanding why such vile subject matter is promoted as art, which coincides with so many other obvious and deliberate attacks on traditional decency.
On the other hand, can it be used as a counterattack of not being upset at their attempt to outrage one but to see, rather, the worth, if not the beauty in their work?
Two things. First, if someone calls you a pariah, thank them. "A Pariah? People Against Racism in Aboriginal Homelands? I'm not, but thank you for thinking part of so worthy a cause.". How can something be an insult if the other does not take it as such?
Secondly, things change over time although, not necessarily for the good. I was watching this episode of The High Chaparral last night, https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0601099/?ref_=ttep_ep19 , where they repeatedly call by name the common term, then, for a gold mine. Since I was watching it on DVD, the word was said though I don't know if it would be said if in broadcast these days. That word? .......... those holes in the wall between booths in an adult book store. Now, for the subject at hand, I don't know how urine might have been used, by humans, in the past.......it's just that people these days seem to be very sensitive.
And finally..........remember what the Lord said about vengeance.
According to the student, when he complained about religious defamation the teacher was not at all sympathetic but, to the contrary, was hostile to the idea.
It isn't religious defamation. It is an artistic expression of how x-tians really are.
In Matthew, Jesus commands that prayer be done in private and Jesus says those who pray in churches or in public are total hypocrites and they get their just desserts, meaning their prayers deserve to go unanswered.
But, we have x-tians who disrespect Jesus -- pee on Jesus-- by insisting we violate Jesus and go against his words and pray publicly in schools so that we can all be hypocrites and disrespect Jesus and marginalize Jesus.
That is just one of many many hypocrisies that particular artistic expression symbolizes.
Most amusing is that x-tians scream, "Islam!" while ignoring the fact that Jesus would tell them people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, meaning the x-tians need to get their act together before they accuse another.
I don’t support showing any of that in a public K-12 school. I agree that 18 is not some magic number but it is the magic number of legal adulthood wherein parents are not needed to make decisions for their kids. I did my first two semesters at college when I was 17 and was obviously lumped in with the rest of everyone who were mostly 18 or 19 at the time, but that’s the understanding when you attend a college. The same cannot be said for high school.
Also it’s not about warping, it’s about preserving their innocence as long as possible. They will be introduced to things as they learn more about the world naturally. Nothing needs to be coming from a teacher. That’s not an organic way of experiencing the more adult-related things about life.
If you think any kid past the age of eleven doesn’t know about human reproduction and thd seamy side of life, I have some news for you.
The best art is controversial, because two or more opposing viewpoints clash, making the student have to consider all sides before forming an opinion. Teachers are there to facilitate the process. Parents need to get the hell out of the schools and let the teachers do their jobs.
You cannot protect children from knowledge, nor should you. Knowledge is the only protection they have against the world.
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