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View Poll Results: Whos gonna win the debate tonight
Ron DeSantis 9 12.68%
Vivek Ramaswamy 24 33.80%
Mike Pence 0 0%
Nikki Haley 17 23.94%
Tim Scott 4 5.63%
Chris Christie 9 12.68%
Doug Burgum 1 1.41%
Asa Hutchinson 7 9.86%
Voters: 71. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-24-2023, 12:10 PM
 
Location: Rochester, WA
14,507 posts, read 12,148,609 times
Reputation: 39103

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It was an unprovoked and unwarranted personal attack. I think Christy came across as the kind of name-calling bully I thought these candidates were trying to get away from.

 
Old 08-24-2023, 12:10 PM
 
13,217 posts, read 21,842,161 times
Reputation: 14131
The more I listened to Ramaswamy, the worse it got. He's rabidly against China, but won't support Ukraine. I forget who pointed out that Russia is in bed with China, so if you don't stop Putin now, you'll be paying the price later. Was it Burham who pointed that out?

Anyway, did anyone catch the huge number of 3-letter agencies that Ramaswamy says he will end? IRS was definitely one of them. But was it EPA? DOE? and what else...? How the hell are you going to reduce the dept without an agency to make sure people pay their taxes? It's ridiculous. You can't say you support the police and want to cancel the IRS, unless you are a tax cheat.

Pence actually had some hard figures to toss out, a plus for him. But his holy roller in-your-face faux Christianity was nauseating, and a show stopper.

Asa Hutchison was smooth, presidential-like both in appearance and speech. He didn't say anything alarming until his closing which turned me off, but I can't remember exactly what it was.

Scott, fergetaboutit. He a poser with a faux Martin Luther King mannerism he turns on and off.

Desantis -- just stop. Go back to fighting Mickey Mouse.

Burgham, there's something smarmy about that pasted-on grin that turned me off.

So it's Haley all the way. The lady has carefully thought out positions, none that seem extreme. We *must* stop Putin's land grab expansion, or we will pay exponentially hire prices on the next confrontation which will no doubt involve China. No Republican is going to admit to be pro-choice and she appeared to be the lesser of the evils there with her pro-woman agenda. I agree with her stance on trans men in sports. She's well poised, and smart. I really would like to see her win the primary.
 
Old 08-24-2023, 12:23 PM
 
17,607 posts, read 15,292,362 times
Reputation: 22926
Quote:
Originally Posted by katharsis View Post
Imo, although I agree that Haley presented herself and her views very well, she is too anti-abortion and too much of a warmonger for my liking.

Haley needs to establish a solid position on abortion more, because.. I disagree with you in one way about her.. While she, personally, is anti-abortion.. I don't think she's a solidly anti-abortion FOR OTHERS as you think.

I think she has a bit of the view that I do (And, many others do) where she kinda views it as a necessary evil. Certainly she believes there should be limits on it, but.. I don't know that she's on board with the 6 week limit that many states have passed.

I don't think anyone (Outside of loonies) believes that with a ~40 week gestation period that abortion should be legal freely at 39 weeks. My view is.. Let's start with 16 weeks and.. Adjust from there. I can see it going slightly higher, maybe slightly lower. But.. 16 weeks is a good starting point.

Now.. I believe Haley did sign the law here that set it at 6 weeks, but.. Let's be honest. That was in 2016 or so and.. No one REALLY thought that Roe v Wade would be overturned. And if she hadn't signed it, with the makeup of the house and senate in SC, it would have been overridden.

So. She is 100% right that a ban on abortion at the federal level will NEVER happen.

This is the best that I can find on her position on it.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/nikki-h...a-transgender/

Basically..


Quote:
"So, where can we agree? We can agree: Let's stop late-term abortions. Let's make sure that if doctors and nurses don't believe in abortion, they shouldn't have to perform them. Let's encourage more adoptions and make sure our children in foster care feel love. Let's make sure contraception is accessible. And let's say that if a woman has an abortion, she shouldn't go to jail or get the death penalty. Let's start there. And instead of demonizing the issue, let's humanize the issue."
That.. Certainly doesn't sound "too anti-abortion" to me. That sounds like.. Let's get something logical, balanced and proper in place. Crap's gonna happen, let's do our best that there are options OTHER than abortion available, but.. Keep the option open for those that want to go that route, within reason.

I do think she needs to clarify her position more detailed on abortion, because.. I understand why you THINK she is 'too' anti-abortion. You see that she signed the very restrictive law in SC.. but.. It's like signing over the rights to mining on Ceti Alpha V. Well.. Does it really matter? And, when she signed that law, it was becoming law no matter what AND.. It really didn't matter. Until.. Whoops.. It did.

I just don't think she is as anti-abortion as you think she is.


This is a bad idea, adding this after the fact.. But.. So far as Haley.. Her and Scott are at the top of my list. I've gotten some.. Alarming news about Scott and his campaign spending that has me concerned that I want answers to. you might see more about this soon. Right now, go to www.fitsnews.com and you can find the article there.

Haley made a pretty big misstep a few months back talking about the retirement age. I get what she was saying, that everything needs to be on the table and discussed.. but she really wasn't clear about it. Now, if that's the biggest mis-step she makes.. That's OK. And she really did impress me again and give me more hope for her last night. But, read up on what she said about the retirement age, and I think you'll see what I mean by her not being very clear. I was worried that little mis-step early on would doom her.
 
Old 08-24-2023, 12:23 PM
 
Location: Spring Hill, FL
4,299 posts, read 1,560,751 times
Reputation: 3492
Having watched it, I think Joe Biden was the winner.

DeSantis needs to pull out now, the humiliation is almost too much. It's clear they've tried to coach him into being less authoritarian, he just ends up looking like he's malfunctioning.
 
Old 08-24-2023, 12:25 PM
 
3,423 posts, read 1,449,388 times
Reputation: 1114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diana Holbrook View Post
I am not supporting Pence for president, I just think on this point, he's not wrong on the constitutionality of abortion legislation.

Congress is bound by the terms of our Constitution, and that includes adhering to federalism, our Constitution's big-tent system [see the Tenth Amendment] in which the States and people therein, and not Congress, get to decide on those matters which ". . . in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives, liberties, and properties of the people, and the internal order, improvement, and prosperity of the State."

Pence advocates federal legislation banning abortions past 15 weeks of being pregnant. That is in violation of our constitution's Tenth Amendment and federalism. Had he mentioned a constitutional amendment to accmplish he personal feelings, that would have been an entirely different story. But he didn't.

.
 
Old 08-24-2023, 12:28 PM
 
Location: 20 years from now
6,454 posts, read 7,014,957 times
Reputation: 4663
Vivek was very refreshing, I thought he pretty much owned the stage. He identified the problems, and offered solutions. He's young, energetic, and exactly what we need if Trump can't get there.

If you look at the news, it's clear who the establishment wants...DeSantis. He was OK at best, but underwhelming given the expectations.

And this was the liveliest that Pence has been....but he really didn't offer much of anything but religious dogma when he couldn't offer anything of susbtanse

Halley was robotic and Christie was a joke and he's obviously carrying water for the establishment
 
Old 08-24-2023, 12:29 PM
 
Location: Rochester, WA
14,507 posts, read 12,148,609 times
Reputation: 39103
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRR View Post
I can't see Ramaswamy wanting to be Trump's VP or Trump wanting him. I think that his ego would not let him play second fiddle to someone of Trump's limited intelligence. And on the other hand, I don't think Trump would want to share the spotlight with Ramaswamy who would want a lot of it to shine on him. Each one would be clamoring "Look at me"!!!

Of course they're both egomaniacs, that's why they're in politics.

But I CAN see Vivek making a good VP for Trump.

Two main reasons...

Vivek has a stated and worthwhile goal of bringing back high tech manufacturing including microchips, to the United States. That would be an awesome assignment for him as VP, and would very much fit with Trump's agenda.

Trump will be a one term president, and Vivek is still too young and inexperienced on the world stage... this would give him what he needs to end up with someone who can run and win in 2028.


We just may need to talk both of them into it.
 
Old 08-24-2023, 12:32 PM
 
Location: Hoosierville
17,442 posts, read 14,675,944 times
Reputation: 11664
Quote:
Originally Posted by brotherfromthegutter View Post
So you did know he literally verbatim copied Obama's opening line at a convention speech (Christie thought it was a debate) and said he was a skinny brown guy. If you are going to plagiarize a speech you should be called out.
First, it wasn't Obama's opening line - "skinny kid with a funny name" was buried deep in his convention speech.

Second, neither Obama nor Vivek said they were brown.
 
Old 08-24-2023, 12:34 PM
 
9,913 posts, read 9,603,323 times
Reputation: 10114
Trump chose not to attend the debate, which is his choice, but ironically i want to say this - We are making fun and criticizing Biden for not campaigning, the pundits think Biden will be in the basement again and his surrogates will do all the work.

How is this different from Trump who also decided not to attend the debates? is that like Biden with the idea that all Biden has to do is be crowned the winner (he thinks he has this all wrapped around his little finger so no need to campaign). I personally wish Trump would have been there yesterday since he should be there for his fans, moreso than dissing Fox because Fox is hostile to him.

by Trump not attending the debates, is he acting like Biden - expecting to be crowned the winner, without actually doing the work? At least in that regard?

So what is the difference?
 
Old 08-24-2023, 12:37 PM
 
Location: Rochester, WA
14,507 posts, read 12,148,609 times
Reputation: 39103
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnwk1 View Post
Congress is bound by the terms of our Constitution, and that includes adhering to federalism, our Constitution's big-tent system [see the Tenth Amendment] in which the States and people therein, and not Congress, get to decide on those matters which ". . . in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives, liberties, and properties of the people, and the internal order, improvement, and prosperity of the State."

Pence advocates federal legislation banning abortions past 15 weeks of being pregnant. That is in violation of our constitution's Tenth Amendment and federalism. Had he mentioned a constitutional amendment to accmplish he personal feelings, that would have been an entirely different story. But he didn't.

.

No, it really isn't contrary. Deciding and Defining when life and liberty begin is pretty central to applying the constitution.


I can agree a constitutional amendment would settle it, I'm not sure the constitution requires that.
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