Nearly 2/3 of Americans want the president elected by popular vote, not the electoral college (radical, death)

[BaptistFundie]

Originally Posted by WRM20

No, you apparently have an issue with comprehending that if the majority of people live in urban areas, they will likely drive the vote for statewide offices. That's just the way it works. There is no way you can argue that the minority living in rural areas should get to choose who wins a statewide race.

Our nation was founded as a union of states. Not one big country. What that means is that ever state that joins the union has a say in how the union is run. Not every person.

If you'd like to see that changed, perhaps you should try to organize a Constitutional Amendment or move to a country that elects their leaders differently.

[workingclasshero]

Originally Posted by WRM20

If the majority of Virginia voters live in Northern Virginia, then the rural areas are going to have to accept what happens., That's the way democracy works. Rural areas aren't special and don't deserve more consideration than urban areas.

more admission to domination


going to have to accept...... yes master, we accept

[VA Yankee]

Originally Posted by workingclasshero

there you have it folks...

the liberal elite masters have spoken.... only they count

And when the population centers of a state vote Republican (think Utah as an example) what then do you still play the victim card or can the Democratic minority make the statement that the Conservative "masters have spoken.... only they count"....

[notnamed]

Originally Posted by Pryvete

So the pretences can be dropped, and the ballots will go directly to 'electing' whoever is put up there. We all know this would ultimately benefit the Democrats moreso than the Republicans. Supposedly, a GOP candidate hasn't won the popular vote since 2004. What does that imply? Democrat hegemony for the next quarter to half a century?

That the GOP needs to update its messaging to appeal to more people.

[villageidiot1]

Originally Posted by danielj72

This brief but true post sums up what would happen. The socialist urbanites would rule this country with an iron fist. We would become as far left as the Soviet Union. Small states and rural areas would have zero say in our government and they may in fact be actively persecuted.

The founding fathers knew the danger of the popular vote giving too much power to the cities so the electoral college was one of the additions to the constitution intended to check the power of big states and big cities. The other was of course 2 senators for each state regardless of size. The reason we have resisted socialism until now is because of our constitutional restrictions upon the power of cities. Changing this check on their power guarantees they will rule the nation. It also likely guarantees the country will break up in a messy way. Small states and rural conservative areas are unlikely to yield. Most red staters would choose secession over becoming subjects of the socialist blue states.

The founding fathers knew the small states would never willingly live in a union where they had no say. It was true then and it’s true now. The electoral college protects the republic.

The delegates at the Constitutional Convention never mentioned anything about cities. The decision to adopt the Electoral College (EC) was to preserve a level of federalism to protect the interests of smaller states from majority state rule. Once the decision was made to adopt the EC, there was no discussion about popular vote.

Originally Posted by Brian_of_Hull

At the risk of veering slightly off topic - Canada has a parliamentary system, so in no way, shape, or form is the Prime Minister elected by a popular vote of the whole country. Technically, the only people that voted for (or against) Trudeau were those in the riding of Papineau, where he is the Member.

More back on topic, I do not support abolishing the Electoral College, but it is not because a popular vote would give too much power to California and New York (or at least, not exactly). It is because having the EC is a reminder that the US is, or at least once was, a federation of states. It is much more in keeping with the spirit in which the nation was founded to have the president decided by delegates from each state than by popular vote.

True, but I don't think that is a good enough reason to keep the Electoral College.

Originally Posted by GotHereQuickAsICould

The EC was originally a proportional system. If one third of the state voted for one candidate, then one third of their state's electoral votes would go in that candidate's column.

IIRC, it was Virginia that started the winner-take-all approach in order to back Jefferson. Other states soon followed.

The Electoral College was not originally a proportional system. It wasn't until the 1824 election, that the majority of states chose their presidential electors based on winner-take-all results in the statewide popular vote. It wasn't until 1864, that electors in every state have been chosen based on a popular election

Originally Posted by bergun

You are entitled to feel whatever way about the electoral college, but the simple fact is that it is not going away in any of our lifetimes… Period.

In order to remove the electoral college would require a change to the U.S. Constitution WHICH would take 3/4 of all the states to agree with that and “I” seriously do not think that the Progressive Left/Democrats can convince 38 states to remove or change the 12th Amendment.

Those “fly over” states are not stupid since they know that a “popular vote” system would leave them powerless since all the focus AND power would come from the urban centers. And, where do you think politicians will spend all the money? I’ll give you a hint, not on rural America since they wouldn’t matter anymore. The city of Seattle would have political power than the whole State of Wyoming… How fair is that?

A little history lesson… The electoral college was put into the U.S. Constitution to ENSURE that the urban centers would not dominate rural areas.

Another important historical FACT, we are a Constitutional Republic. If you do not know what that means, please look it up and educate yourself. Liberals are always claiming to be better educated than Conservatives, but they seem to always miss the main factual points on any topic… So much for being “educated.” Yes, I have a college degree and over ten years of advance training within numerous procedural/technical/managerial fields Also, another important fact, as it relates to education, which is that I have met plenty of stupid “educated” people throughout my entire working life!

Exactly!

Originally Posted by hawk55732

My main issue with the EC is that in the majority of the states the electoral do not have to vote according to who the people vote for. Some states have laws saying they do, others states dont have laws and other states have laws saying they have to follow the popular vote but there is no penalty if they don't.

But they do in the vast majority of cases.

Originally Posted by rjshae

2/3 would be enough to get the Constitution changed.

An amendment may be proposed by a two-thirds vote of both Houses of Congress, or, if two-thirds of the States request one, by a convention called for that purpose. The amendment must then be ratified by three-fourths of the State legislatures, or three-fourths of conventions called in each State for ratification.

[workingclasshero]

Originally Posted by VA Yankee

And when the population centers of a state vote Republican (think Utah as an example) what then do you still play the victim card or can the Democratic minority make the statement that the Conservative "masters have spoken.... only they count"....

huh.....are you saying the utah is so backwards that rural utal is liberal....????


you make no sense

[katharsis]

I was surprised and doubtful that two-thirds of those surveyed favored abolishing the Electoral College until I saw that it was done by Pew Research. So, I will take the results as being accurate, although I am disappointed.

I think the poll results are due to "one person, one vote" thinking -- which sounds very reasonable, logical and fair unless one looks at what this would mean to many voters in red and/or rural areas. The plain truth is that city dwellers have a much different outlook and different priorities than rural people, generally speaking. I think that most people do not understand that abolishing the Electoral College would give urban voters (who are mostly Democrat) much more of a say in national policy, and that people in low-population red states (and conservatives) would no longer have much power at all as far as getting what they want. I believe that it is very significant that 72% of "highly politically engaged" Republicans favor keeping the Electoral College*, which seems to support my thinking that people who don't bother to read (and think) are often faced with something that they didn't anticipate and don't want.


*From OP link:

Highly politically engaged Republicans overwhelmingly favor keeping the Electoral College: 72% say this, while 27% support moving to a popular vote system.

[WRM20]

Originally Posted by workingclasshero

but again, you are saying that the urban areas should dominate over the rural area slaves

liberalism wants control, liberalism demands control

What slaves? That's ridiculous. Do you think the minority living in rural areas should get to make the choices for everyone? No, that's not how it works. What rural areas do get to do is elect representatives in the legislatures that advocate for rural positions and protect the interests of rural constituents. Governors and Presidents do not rule by fiat like dictators.

[WRM20]

Originally Posted by BaptistFundie

Our nation was founded as a union of states. Not one big country. What that means is that ever state that joins the union has a say in how the union is run. Not every person.

If you'd like to see that changed, perhaps you should try to organize a Constitutional Amendment or move to a country that elects their leaders differently.

I haven't given my position on the Electoral College. I am pointing out the fallacies of posters who think the world will end if leaders are elected by popular vote.

[Uconn97]

Most Americans don't understand how the electoral college works....