How does one prove there is proof? (legal, regular, Levin)

[Wapasha]

Originally Posted by Sammy75

For example my friends tell me there is proof that the democrats cheated for Biden to win in 2020. I stated to them that nothing is proof unless you are actually there witnessing it. Anything can be fabricated and be presented as proof in the media. If you are not there to witness it first hand it isn’t proof. They just get angry and say I’m wrong.

In precincts that are controlled by a corrupt bunch of people, who all want the same candidate to win, and the other candidate to lose. How does the average person present evidence of fraud or vote tampering, when the people who are in charge of investigating and reporting said fraud, refuse to cooperate, because they were the people participating in the fraud?

It's like asking the killer to investigate the murders he committed. He knows where the bodies are buried, so all he needs to do is just not uncover any of the bodies, and not find any of the evidence. Case closed.

Even if fraud actually did take place, you will never find any proof of it if the people who took part in the fraud are also the ones who would be investigating themselves.

[DannyHobkins]

This one flew under the radar from last month.

There was ballot rigging in New Jersey. The Democrat was busted after he switched parties to help a Republican Congressman in the 2022 election.

https://newjerseymonitor.com/briefs/...-fraud-scheme/

He did the work to for the 2021 Governor race, and likely many others.

Interested where they "caught him" after he did it for a Republican. However, it sheds light on how he did. He gave an entire speech to the Republicans trying to sell his service, that this is how its done now.

[Upminster-1]

There is no proof. Of anything. Ever. Only puddings. But only to the extent that people believe in puddings.

You can argue all you want, and rationalize all you want, and "prove" to yourself anything you want, but you cannot "prove" anything to anyone else unless they want to accept what you present as "proof" ...

In a reasonable society, "proof" is obtained by consensus. But let's face it, if we all believe the earth is flat, and have "proven" it to ourselves, and everyone believes it, is the world actually flat? There was a time when pretty much everyone believed it was.

I cannot help but wonder how much of what we "know and believe" today is actually true. Even what we see and hear with our own senses is merely our perception of something. And subject to our inherent bias.

[snowmountains]

Originally Posted by eddie gein

Your friends are idiots and you are correct.

However the righties on here won't accept the outcomes of judges or juries... which is where for centuries we have taken our "proof" when there are disputes.

OP says you can't have proof unless you were actually there witnessing it. Were the judges or jurors there?

[latimeria]

Originally Posted by latimeria

Have you ever looked at a complaint (the initial lawsuit document) to see what it is even like? It's not just a couple of sentences saying something like "There was election fraud! Let us go to court and we'll show you!

You lay out details and supporting evidence to show there even is something to be looked into. That's how I know, for example, that judges looked at at least some of the affidavits presented and other evidence, despite the constant claims to the contrary. I read the rulings where they talked about the affidavit and why they weren't convincing.

I saw nonsense like the Ramsland affidavit being submitted. Turns out, as discovered by a conservative law blog. ....Whoopsie, he mixed up states for his data and there was no problem.
https://www.powerlineblog.com/archiv...-are-doing.php

One big example: Rudy Giuliani had a hearing before Judge Matthew Brand in PA, asking for 7 million (!) votes to be disqualified. He is a conservative Federalist Society member, etc.The judge allowed for an audio release of the hearing so the public could hear what had happened and his ruling is available for people ro read.


https://apnews.com/article/judge-thr...43c3385c9ba86c

In Nevada, Judge James Russell told them specifically that he would look at evidence presented. Yet the result:


https://www.8newsnow.com/investigato...-clark-county/

In Arizona, one of Trump's lawyers had to admit they weren't able to verify that affidavits they had were real because of how they were collected online:


Those are just a few examples. The Texas SCOTUS case was a Hail Mary and rightly denied. I saw so many different theories and claims swirling around, including wacky things like military shootouts in Germany taking back server data and Italian satellites. What I didn't see?

Proof.

I accidentally left out the article for the Arizona example :
https://lawandcrime.com/2020-electio...lies-and-spam/

For subsequent "proofs" offered in this thread after that post, those have been debunked also. A lot of it came down to people not knowing or misrepresenting how elections are run, including the Cyber Ninjas, who had no election auditing experience.

For example, the "duplicate ballots cast in Arizona!"... was actually about ballot envelopes, not ballots. Duplicate images exist because they were made as part of the process of curing ballots, where election workers reach out to voters if something needs to be verified, like signatures. These types of verification processes happen in every state. There is a period of time between the election and actual certification of the votes where they work on verification of some votes, etc.. We just don't realize it.

https://www.12news.com/article/news/...0-e1d53c3eec06

[rjshae]

There are heuristics such as Occam's Razor that are useful in analyzing evidence. A second method is to check for the presence of independent validation. A third is to look at the source for the proof -- is it a generally reliable source, or just based entirely on the words from a questionable individual? Finally, there are rigorous statistical methods employed by a professional analyst.

[Thulsa]

Originally Posted by Steve-C

Look at the security footage from the State Farm Arena tabulation center after the press and observers were kicked out due to a "burst pipe"...the woman in the back fed the same pile of ballots through the machine over and over...but no evidence here, move along peasant.

Everything you said is wrong about the Georgia election is wrong, and it has been debunked endlessly.
Even Guiliani says you're wrong.
https://georgiarecorder.com/briefs/r...dling-ballots/

[YourWakeUpCall]

Originally Posted by Sammy75

For example my friends tell me there is proof that the democrats cheated for Biden to win in 2020. I stated to them that nothing is proof unless you are actually there witnessing it. Anything can be fabricated and be presented as proof in the media. If you are not there to witness it first hand it isn’t proof. They just get angry and say I’m wrong.

You're not wrong. Now that we have that sorted out, please provide proof that the Democrats didn't cheat. See how that works? Welcome to the wonderful world of logic.

[Kracer]

Originally Posted by Sammy75

For example my friends tell me there is proof that the democrats cheated for Biden to win in 2020. I stated to them that nothing is proof unless you are actually there witnessing it. Anything can be fabricated and be presented as proof in the media. If you are not there to witness it first hand it isn’t proof. They just get angry and say I’m wrong.

You need to broaden your perspective.

An election is deemed corrupted, by democrat standards, if social media allows misinformation, despite the source. 2016 dems claimed Trump was illegitimate because they said russia spread lies about hillary.

In 2020 the media in cooperation with the democrats and intel agencies spread lies about Trump. the intel agencies filed false warrants to persecute Trump and his supporters. that constitutes election interference and treason.

Media used pictures taken of 'kids in cages' during the obama administration and claimed the pics were a result of Trump's inhumane policies.

Some critical states like PA violated their own voting laws! the courts allowed the violations to stand and refused to overturn the election results. Likely for fear of unrest and death threats. cheat and win strategy!
Mail ballots were tried by states who never used widespread balloting, and laws were violated and let stand.

Before our very eyes we saw the media promote a mentally impaired candidate. That is HISTORIC! the media ended the prez campaigns of Dukakis, Perry and Dean for the slightest hint they might be mentally unfit. This is more historic than Obama's election. Jaw dropping departure by the media.

Consider biden lost must win democrat primaries. that should toll the bell for any candidate. Harris said 'no mas' even before the primaries as democrats really did not support her. then overnight the leading democrat candidate Bernie, Went silent after clyburn endorsed the reject Biden. What happened???

We saw candidate Biden the healer, unifier and moderate, where did he go????? Now we see the real democrat primary candidate's policies coming from the whitehouse. that would be Bernie Sanders. Dems felt Bernie was too radical to get elected so they pushed Biden as a grandfatherly figure just to get power. the went all out with Sander's policies once in office. That verrrry strange. Defies logic.

All prognosticators on both sides of the aisle said Trump need 65 million votes to win the election. Trump got 75 million votes! and 'lost'?????? Defies logic.

How did biden get more votes than Obama???

Trump drew historic crowds on the trail, the media ion at least one case videoed a sparse audience before the event was filled to capacity with a line around the block. Published article saying no one ws showing up to Trump rallies.

Meanwhile Biden rarely campaigns outside his basement and when he does, it is scripted and questions screened before the event. They had to pay people to show up for a biden campaign stop and to claim biden drew a crowd was a media exaggeration.

So crowd size, it is claimed, is not indicative of who will win and election. That is generally true... in normal times where one guy draws 1,000 people and the other guy draws a crowd of 1,500. The crowd sizes instead were sparse, less than a hundred, generally vs exponentially larger crowds of several thousands wrapped around the block. This phenomenon defies common sense, logic and consciousness that Trump would lose to biden.

Who sits in the oval office Candidate biden or Bernie Sanders?
Would the American people have voted for dem front runner bernie Sander's extreme far left policies if they were presented as they now appear???? Defies logic.

So forget the ballot tapering at voting polls, dead people voting etc, there is more than enough evidence that the 2020 election was corrupted by the LEFT, and Biden is illegitimate and LESSON LEARNED..... YOU CAN WIN BY CHEATING AND NO COURT IN THE LAND WILL REJECT THE ELECTION RESULTS DESPITE THE DEMONSTRATED EVIDENCE.

[Steve-C]

Originally Posted by Thulsa

Everything you said is wrong about the Georgia election is wrong, and it has been debunked endlessly.
Even Guiliani says you're wrong.
https://georgiarecorder.com/briefs/r...dling-ballots/

There is only ONE reason why press and observers are kicked out of a tabulation center..care to guess what that reason is?