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Old 04-08-2024, 11:31 AM
 
Location: Lake County, IL
738 posts, read 487,330 times
Reputation: 702

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bus man View Post
Peace in the Middle East has for decades been held hostage to Palestinian intransigence. What Trump did was absolutely brilliant. He didn't hit them head on, he didn't keep trying to drag them to the table, he simply went around them. He marginalized them. And lo and behold, other countries in the region, freed from having to pay lip service to the Palestinians, came to the table and began normalizing relations with Israel.

If Trump had been re-elected in 2020, peace in the Middle East would be a budding reality. But instead we got Biden, and the Palestinians are back front and center, and peace is a fading dream.
Yep, exactly. What's more, all them nations who signed the AA with Israel, and those who will (KSA for one), and some of those who won't, and Egypt, and Jordan, and even Lebanon (excluding Hezbollah), yes all of them neighborhood nations who are publicly rooting for an independent Palestinian state...in reality that's the LAST thing that the leaders of those nations want.

And that's because oh jeez but what would an independent Palestinian state look like, and would it be a stabilizing entity in the region? Uhhh, no.

 
Old 04-08-2024, 11:44 AM
 
Location: Newport Beach, California
39,239 posts, read 27,629,646 times
Reputation: 16074
Quote:
Originally Posted by serger View Post
L

Can't you grasp the fact that a country claiming to be a democracy is held to a completely different set of standards than a terrorist organization?
well, During the Normandy Invasion on June 6, 1944, approximately 12,200 French civilians lost their lives or went missing. However, not even the French, thinks there was an alternative or d day was not worth it. People die in war, especially the civilians.

Look, no one (as long as he/she is not a psychopath) wants to see children die, But it seems that no matter what the Israelis do in the interests of Peace, some of the Palestinians are determined to not let them have any.

How about facing reality for a change? History makes no difference, no one is going to move. Jews are there to stay. Palestinians claim all the land is theirs, and want the Israelis out. The Israelis are not going any,where. History does not matter, who had the land before the '67 war, before the '48 war, or when David slew Goliath., nobody is going anywhere.

Hamas is sworn to obliterate Israel, and appear to be satisfied to die trying. The current war would have never happened had Gaza not repeatedly launched missiles. Gazans want all the rights that civilized people have, free trade, port privileges, easy ingress and egress. But, Israel would be insane to allow free trade in an environment where Gaza refuses the right of Israel to exist and overtly calls for its destruction.

How about Palestinians accept the right of Israel to exist for a change? Trust takes time to build, it starts with a simple recognition of your neighbor's right to exist.
 
Old 04-08-2024, 12:07 PM
 
Location: Lake County, IL
738 posts, read 487,330 times
Reputation: 702
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyflower3191981 View Post
well, During the Normandy Invasion on June 6, 1944, approximately 12,200 French civilians lost their lives or went missing. However, not even the French, thinks there was an alternative or d day was not worth it. People die in war, especially the civilians.

Look, no one (as long as he/she is not a psychopath) wants to see children die, But it seems that no matter what the Israelis do in the interests of Peace, some of the Palestinians are determined to not let them have any.

How about facing reality for a change? History makes no difference, no one is going to move. Jews are there to stay. Palestinians claim all the land is theirs, and want the Israelis out. The Israelis are not going any,where. History does not matter, who had the land before the '67 war, before the '48 war, or when David slew Goliath., nobody is going anywhere.

Hamas is sworn to obliterate Israel, and appear to be satisfied to die trying. The current war would have never happened had Gaza not repeatedly launched missiles. Gazans want all the rights that civilized people have, free trade, port privileges, easy ingress and egress. But, Israel would be insane to allow free trade in an environment where Gaza refuses the right of Israel to exist and overtly calls for its destruction.

How about Palestinians accept the right of Israel to exist for a change? Trust takes time to build, it starts with a simple recognition of your neighbor's right to exist.
All true, but you're responding to a bad faith actor, he'll just side-step all that.

All his points are easily refutable, which matters little because his ultimate position is that Israel "shouldn't" exist...as though that term holds anything of concrete importance beyond intellectual masturbation. In reality, it's all about was/wasn't and is/isn't, that's it.

For instance, there "was" an ancient Israel, but that doesn't there "should" be a modern one. Conversely, there "wasn't" ever an ancient Palestine, but that doesn't mean that there "shouldn't" be a modern one. But...there "isn't" one, and that because the Palestinians are not busying themselves with building a functional state. They're stateless because they're either unable or unwilling to build a real state.
 
Old 04-08-2024, 12:24 PM
 
43,695 posts, read 44,435,568 times
Reputation: 20585
Quote:
Originally Posted by bus man View Post
Peace in the Middle East has for decades been held hostage to Palestinian intransigence. What Trump did was absolutely brilliant. He didn't hit them head on, he didn't keep trying to drag them to the table, he simply went around them. He marginalized them. And lo and behold, other countries in the region, freed from having to pay lip service to the Palestinians, came to the table and began normalizing relations with Israel.
The October 7th attack timing was partially to prevent the progress of normalization between Israel and Saudi Arabia.

Israel might agree to partial/temporary ceasefire in order to get back its hostages. But I doubt that it will a permanent one no matter what President Biden tells Prime Minister Netanyahu.
 
Old 04-08-2024, 03:51 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
7,184 posts, read 4,771,062 times
Reputation: 4869
Quote:
Originally Posted by Workin_Hard View Post
If Hamas somehow held the advantage here - militarily, strategically, or numerically - does anyone believe they would be agreeable to a ceasefire even if the whole world were screaming and demanding it? They would view every dead Israeli as a trophy until none were left alive. The solution to the Palestinian problem is clear.
Hamas is winning the PR war. They don’t care about their people or how many of their children suffer.
 
Old 04-08-2024, 05:11 PM
 
Location: West Palm Beach, FL
17,665 posts, read 6,928,439 times
Reputation: 16578
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDnurse View Post
Hamas is winning the PR war. They don’t care about their people or how many of their children suffer.
Hamas is winning the PR with easily brainwashed people, who are the same people who believe the DNC/MSM propaganda about everything else. Sane, rational people don't support Hamas or believe their lies.
 
Old 04-08-2024, 05:32 PM
 
4,725 posts, read 4,425,852 times
Reputation: 8481
I'm speechless reading the post above.
All I know is it is an absolute disgrace that the victims are being shamed and the bullies are riding high at the moment, at the moment only.
The hostages are being forgotten and should not be. Bring them home now.
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