Why do Americans think Spanish people (aka Spaniards aka Europeans) are non-white? (compared, separation)

[BrandyPuppy1977]

You mean vvhite? One can be white but not vvhite.

[geoking66]

I really don't understand why we bother with the whole Hispanic designation in the US at all. It's not only confusing because everyone disagrees (what about Portuguese people, I mean Portuguese and Spanish are incredibly similar in terms of lexical similarity and grammar, originated on the same peninsula, and Portugal and Spain were ruled jointly for quite a long time, then add the fact that an insanely large group of people think that Hispanic is a race and the government sometimes classifies it as such, but then has Hispanic-white and Hispanic-nonwhite groups), but what makes Spanish-speakers, regardless of race, ethnicity, or whatever we're measuring, any more special? I just don't get it.

[BrandyPuppy1977]

I think the Hispanic category is used because most Hispanics in the USA don't fit into the white category (except those of pure Spanish descent), nor the black category (except for some Hispanics from the Caribbean), nor the Asian category (unless you count Filipinos), nor the Native American category. Almost all Mexicans for example would be a mix of white and Native American. Maybe a multiracial category would make more sense than "Hispanic or Latino".

[Neutre]

Originally Posted by BrandyPuppy1977

I think the Hispanic category is used because most Hispanics in the USA don't fit into the white category (except those of pure Spanish descent), nor the black category (except for some Hispanics from the Caribbean), nor the Asian category (unless you count Filipinos), nor the Native American category. Almost all Mexicans for example would be a mix of white and Native American. Maybe a multiracial category would make more sense than "Hispanic or Latino".

That's true.
It is interesting that based on physical characteristics large swaths of the area outside of the Americas have populations that, like many Latinos, do not fit neatly into the Black, White and Asian [which is often grouped together with Pacific Islanders] racial categories.

Taking the example of Asians:
an Indonesian who physically looks more an African-American or a Pacific Islander;
an Indian who physically could pass as a mix of African-American and Caucasian but NOT Asian; and
a Chinese that corresponds to the "Asian look";
All three -which btw are from countries with the largest populations outside of the US- being vastly different from each other, and in terms of physical characteristics may be closer to Caucasian, Black, Pacific Islander, "Latino Brown", or anything else but "Asian", are constituted as a racial category in the US, i.e. the Asian race.

The racial designations, including White, can carry very different meanings depending on what one has in mind.
White in the US can be anything from a very narrow sense of Germanic stock, excluding Irish and Eastern Europeans, to very broad sense of Caucasian including Indians and Ethiopians.
Whiteness is closely related with physical appearance. Yet there are people in Asia, Africa and Oceania that look Caucasian. In fact, some anthropologists put Ainu, Pacific Islanders, South Asians and Ethiopians as subgroups of Caucasoid.

Just as there are people in Asia and Oceania who, based on physical characteristics, are rather Black than Asian.
For example, a LOT of girls in Southeast Asia look just like this Black girl.
If this Indonesian guy (http://youtu.be/KOPp0GbTBqs?t=1m17s - broken link) was walking down the street in America, most people would assume that he is Black.
Barack Obama's Doppelgänger is a native of Southeast Asia.
A lot of native Melanesians [i.e. Pacific Islanders] look Black.

I personally have met natives from Germany, Poland, Hungary, and Latvia (yes, that Baltic country) whom we thought were Asian. We even asked them if a parent or grandparent of them had been Asian, but they were of exclusively European ancestry as far as they knew.
A lot of the natives in Southwestern Africa look more Asian than Black.

So Latinos or Hispanics are not unique in this case.
This close intertwine between national origin, linguistic and cultural background, and physical characteristics [which sort of criss cross all around the world] also explains why Latino is amply used as a racial designation numerous discourses about race in America.



Quote from another post of mine:
"
amartinez19 wrote:
Take this scenario. Lets say your family would have immigrated to Argentina as many Italians did and then immigrated to the US. You would then be classified as Hispanic. Your daughter is not interracial. Hispanic is not a race.

Originally posted by me:
Take these scenarios. Let's say your family had immigrated to (a) as many (b) did and then immigrated to the US. You would then be classified as (c). Your daughter is not interracial. (c) is not a race.

1.
a: South Africa
b: Dutch, Indians, Indonesians
c: African-American

2
a: Fiji
b: Indians
c: Pacific Islander

3
a: Madagascar
b: Indonesians
c: African-American

4
a: Kazakhstan
b: Germans
c: Asian

5
a: Singapore
b: Brits, Indians
c: Asian

6
a: European Russia
b: Mongols
c: White

7
a: Holland
b: Indonesians
c: White

8
a: Mozambiq
b: Portuguese
c: African-American

9
a: Uzbekistan
b: Russians
c: Asian

etc.
"

[serpent_of_old]

does this matter? and why choose for it to matter, seeing as though nothing matters unless we determine it does. like really

[JoeAguilar]

I don't understand the fuss, what does it really matter how tanned you are? The fact does remain however that Spanish are culturally different from South Americans and closer to mainland Europeans than the Americas, although in this globalised world we are slowly becoming more alike.
I do know that in the late 1700's early 1800's the then king of Spain tried to 're-populate' the south east corner of Spain and consequently many people from Germany, Switzerland & Austria came to this region.
I am from Granada in Andalusia and was born with blonde hair & blue eyes as are many of my cousins. Many friends have green eyes (indiginous to Germany) so there is no doubt that there is an additional mix here... Still consider myself very Spanish though!

[Maksud90]

Just because they're not Anglo-Saxon/Germanic/Nordic doesn't mean they're not white.

[Cocoricoco]

95 percent of Hispanics in the US are mestizo Mexicans and Central Americans.

Except for pockets South Florida, NY, Nuevo Mexico and Louisiana, there are no Spaniards or pure descendants of Spaniards in the US.

You must add that to that the fact that Americans place Spain somewhere around Guatemala, they think that Spaniards are a mixture of torero and Pancho Villa and that Spanish prepare delicious tacos.

Some affluent Americans in Spain ask where can taste "Spanish tacos and quesadillas", and of course, they are sent packing to the nearest Mexican restaurant.

Artists such as Penelope Cruz and Antonio Banderas became famous in Hollywood because they represent the stereotype of Spanish man and woman. I think they represent the American stereotype, not Spaniards.

[Cocoricoco]

Originally Posted by Maksud90

Just because they're not Anglo-Saxon/Germanic/Nordic doesn't mean they're not white.

Spain is partly Germanic, as well as France and Italy. Spain is also partly Briton/Celtic....


And Spanish settled UK and Ireland 8.000 years ago, that's why original British and Irish are very similar to Spanish.

[Cocoricoco]

Originally Posted by gwillyfromphilly

I wonder if Spaniards go through some type of identity crisis when they come to the U.S. in which they are longer white but lump into the Hispanic racial category and are considered not white by many ignorant Americans?

We feel "vergüenza ajena" (Spanish Shame).

We wonder how a nation as powerful and balanced, capable of drawing the American Constitution and expanding the frontiers of freedom beyond levels never seen before, is also capable of hosting extreme ignorance.

U.S contrasts never ceaze to amaze me.

In the U.S you always find the two extremes on anything. You can find the most ignorant people on geography, and the organization that knows more about geography (National Geographic). You can find religious nuts anchored in the Spanish black legend and some of the best historians specialized in Spanish history.

You can find people absolutely ignorant of the world that surrounds them, and the best universities in the world.

Contrasts are amazing!!

I believe that constrasts are good, a sign of freedom.

When cultures become "monolithic" and PC, they are a step away from their end.