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No argument from me--lots of folks with much give. Mr. Gates has helped; Mr. Rockefeller contributed. The Heinz are generous.
And people just like to throw around words without thought! Something we see here lots.
Yes, that's exactly the point... generalizations do often have a basis of reason, but it's never right to lump everyone together. There are exceptions to every rule, right?
American blacks didn't get onto the same playing field until recently--certainly not before some of the discriminatory practices that existed post Civil War and the 1960s were removed.
Until recently, American blacks had more "couldn'ts" than coulds. Schools, neighbourhoods, employment were often beyond their keen.
Now that the playing field--literally--has improved, it is unquestionable that more American blacks will send their children for more education and increased opportunities.
But, they need some time to catch up!
Quote:
Originally Posted by jest721
In my case, a white anglo-saxon protestant, there is no excuse for a cycle. Both of my parents grew up (technically speaking) in poverty, both graduated high school and went no further. The area was high in crime, and poor yet neither of them have any criminal record.
I went to community college, and later graduated a state school (primarily because I did not have the grades for scholarships to better private schools). I now make a comfortable living with my wife and my own children. This is not an uncommon story. My parents chose to be better than thier parents. I will make that same choice.
American blacks didn't get onto the same playing field until recently--certainly not before some of the discriminatory practices that existed post Civil War and the 1960s were removed.
Until recently, American blacks had more "couldn'ts" than coulds. Schools, neighbourhoods, employment were often beyond their keen.
Now that the playing field--literally--has improved, it is unquestionable that more American blacks will send their children for more education and increased opportunities.
But, they need some time to catch up!
You're absolutely right, and not to bring up the dreaded topic, but I often say this about Latino immigrants (legal or otherwise). Black Americans have only had maybe 40 years of "equality", and deserve some time to catch up with other races.
... it also took a LOT of hard work and perserverance. He did have to work harder than most people, but this is proof it can be done.
This is crucial. The "American Dream" is not given, it is earned. We have the right to prosperity, but never the guarantee. As soon as any individual is content to rest on their proverbial laurels, or be content, they become stagnant.
Another thing I have noticed, especially in these forums, is that people have varying degrees of contentment and fulfillment. Some people talk about great areas to move to that I would never submit my own family to living in. Too many who are in poverty become content with it. We all recognize that we could each do better, but it is hard when we become comfortable. I imagine your friend did not want his own life experiences for his children.
I don't think it's fair to judge them in this manner either... I come from the "higher class", and we're not all ignorant snobs. In fact, many of us appreciate our good fortune, and use this to give back to others - at least that's how my parents raised me.
Can't people take things as generalizations and not accusatory and specific insults? Of course not all "higher class" people are ignorant snobs. I don't imagine many are to begin with. No one said they were Gizmo We're talking in a context of generality here as the issues, even as you yourself have addressed them throughout this thread, are broadly applicable,...at least I thought they were, and you've decided to interpret it personally and hoist a personal "not guilty" flag. I didn't expect that from you honestly and ultimately, it is a pointless statement on your part. Your altruism is admirable, but doesn't change the broad picture we've all been addressing. It's the society we're talking about both good and bad and we all agree hard work is key and that success must be earned. Where we have variances in opinion is what creates poverty and how to resolve it taking into account racism where it exists, which means addressing what it looks like and then trying to come up with solutions.
Good for you that you appreciate your good fortune. My parents are also pretty wealthy and I'm not bad off myself to be honest, but that isn't my focus. I've been speaking broadly and so were you until this post.
American blacks didn't get onto the same playing field until recently--certainly not before some of the discriminatory practices that existed post Civil War and the 1960s were removed.
Until recently, American blacks had more "couldn'ts" than coulds. Schools, neighbourhoods, employment were often beyond their keen.
Now that the playing field--literally--has improved, it is unquestionable that more American blacks will send their children for more education and increased opportunities.
But, they need some time to catch up!
The 60's brought equality primarily in the South, separate but equal was not practiced in the entire country. You seem to be inferring that blacks have had no rights since the 60's.
Current trends (college applications for example) show that they are not taking advantage of those opportunities. It is difficult for many institutions to maintain a representative student body. Not that blacks are not qualified, only that they are not applying.
Can't people take things as generalizations and not accusatory and specific insults? Of course not all "higher class" people are ignorant snobs. I don't imagine many are to begin with. No one said they were Gizmo We're talking in a context of generality here as the issues, even as you yourself have addressed them throughout this thread, are broadly applicable,...at least I thought they were, and you've decided to interpret it personally and hoist a personal "not guilty" flag. I didn't expect that from you honestly and ultimately, it is a pointless statement on your part. Your altruism is admirable, but doesn't change the broad picture we've all been addressing. It's the society we're talking about both good and bad and we all agree hard work is key and that success must be earned. Where we have variances in opinion is what creates poverty and how to resolve it taking into account racism where it exists, which means addressing what it looks like and then trying to come up with solutions.
Good for you that you appreciate your good fortune. My parents are also pretty wealthy and I'm not bad off myself to be honest, but that isn't my focus. I've been speaking broadly and so were you until this post.
Sorry, but it's just an attitude I hear over & over... and anyone can get personally offended after a while. You're right that we're speaking about generalizations, and I shouldn't take anything personally - but it's hard not to sometimes! I also didn't think that the original statement was accurate, since I haven't seen it as a major factor... classism & ethnocentrism are complicated issues, but the wealthy are hardly to blame. I think every class level is (almost) equally guilty, and shouldn't keep trying to pass the buck, so to speak. Just my opinion!
This is crucial. The "American Dream" is not given, it is earned. We have the right to prosperity, but never the guarantee. As soon as any individual is content to rest on their proverbial laurels, or be content, they become stagnant.
Another thing I have noticed, especially in these forums, is that people have varying degrees of contentment and fulfillment. Some people talk about great areas to move to that I would never submit my own family to living in. Too many who are in poverty become content with it. We all recognize that we could each do better, but it is hard when we become comfortable. I imagine your friend did not want his own life experiences for his children.
Amen. Nothing is handed to anyone, even those who come from better situations... I see way too many people of all demographics making excuses, when they could use that energy to better their situation. Not everyone will get into Yale or become a lawyer, but as you said, there are different levels of contentment. About my friend, he probably won't have children (he's gay & not interested in having a family), but just didn't want to fall into the trap his friends did... he saw more tragedy by his teenage years than most see in a lifetime, and knew he couldn't survive that way. Oh, and he also wants to take care of his aunt & uncle, who raised him after his mom died. He's a special guy, but everyone is capable of raising themselves up to what makes them happy!
We need to appreciate all people for their uniqueness and special qualities. If people want to send their children to an all white school then that is their business. Good and bad comes in all skin tones. My only problem with any of it is please speak English that's all.
The 60's brought equality primarily in the South, separate but equal was not practiced in the entire country. You seem to be inferring that blacks have had no rights since the 60's.
Current trends (college applications for example) show that they are not taking advantage of those opportunities. It is difficult for many institutions to maintain a representative student body. Not that blacks are not qualified, only that they are not applying.
Seperate but equal was practiced quite extensively in California throughout the 20th century. In this archive (http://www.archives.gov/midatlantic/education/desegregation/orange-county.html) of the late 40's, it speaks of school segregation against Hispanic (primarily Mexican) and Japanese students/families in Orange County. The Mendez vs Westminster School District case produced that segregation was against the equal protection of the 14th amendment. After numerous appeals, the 9th circuit court upheld the ruling and eventually lead to a California bill to outlaw segregation.
Perhaps many parts of the country were not as outlandish in their discriminatory practices as in the South, but discrimination and racism existed in NEARLY EVERY part of the country. Blacks may have been somewhat let off the hook in certain parts, but Hispanics, Asians, and other 'new immigrants' continued to receive their fair share of discrimination.
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Mr. Gates has helped; Mr. Rockefeller contributed. The Heinz are generous. 
