Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
You aren't getting my point. Developing oil independence greatly damages the economy of Venezuela (and as a bonus, Russia too). This causes greater hardship for their citizens, which is fine with me. Unhappy citizens may decide that Chavez isn't such a great idea, and replace him with someone who doesn't nationalize companies where others have taken all of the risk and efforts.
Discuss Cuba with someone else, it is of no interest to me at all.
Thank you for answering my question. Your answer being, that you want to apply our proven disastrous Cuban policy to Venezuela, and the Cuban people suffered terribly through a half a century of our Cuban policy, and the same policy in Venezuela would cause their people to suffer terribly, and AMERICANS DON'T CARE how much people suffer in countries that we CLAIM we are trying to protect from harm and win the hearts and minds of. We are discussing Venezuela policy, in which you favor of repeating the disastrous Cuban policy. Your Venezuela policy IS the failed Cuban policy, and that, to you, means nothng. Policy in a 'history vacuum". And you also brought us into the disastrous Iraq war, because reminding you of Vietnam was something that "was of no interest at all to you". Except that it predicted exactly what would happen in Iraq.
As Einstein said, the definition of insanity is to keep repeating the same thing and expecting different results. I've often wondered why EInstein said "insanity" when he really meant "stupid".
Thank you for answering my question. Your answer being, that you want to apply our proven disastrous Cuban policy to Venezuela, and the Cuban people suffered terribly through a half a century of our Cuban policy, and the same policy in Venezuela would cause their people to suffer terribly, and AMERICANS DON'T CARE how much people suffer in countries that we CLAIM we are trying to protect from harm and win the hearts and minds of. We are discussing Venezuela policy, in which you favor of repeating the disastrous Cuban policy. Your Venezuela policy IS the failed Cuban policy, and that, to you, means nothng. Policy in a 'history vacuum". And you also brought us into the disastrous Iraq war, because reminding you of Vietnam was something that "was of no interest at all to you". Except that it predicted exactly what would happen in Iraq.
As Einstein said, the definition of insanity is to keep repeating the same thing and expecting different results. I've often wondered why EInstein said "insanity" when he really meant "stupid".
Uhhh, where did I ever state I wanted to protect Venezuela? Also, wouldn't it be assumed that my wanting to get energy independent from extortionist crooks like the leaders of Venezuela and Russia (oh yeah, can't forget Morales in Bolivia too) would be to help damage their economy? Wouldn't it be assumed that this would be my objective?
Chavez and his buddies with FARC are clearly on the defensive, with oil their last economic card. Russia needs to buddy up with them to extend the economic extorsion they are already clamping on Europe. Thankfully, the political folks are finally catching on and can begin to stop this game, and drive the economy of Venezuela right into the ground.
BTW, Venezuela's inflation rate is now up to about 20%, and climbing. Hopefully this will start to really disrupt daily living in Venezuela. The folks might finally get up the courage to replace him, and we can resume a constructive relationship.
Good prediction from Heritage Foundation in 2004, right on the money:
Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez is systematically leading his country into dictatorship by provoking internal conflict and characterizing his internal opponents as traitors. Beyond Venezuela, he sees himself replacing Fidel Castro as the leader of Latin America's radical left--uniting the region against U.S.-style democracy, free markets, and American influence.
Chávez derives popular support from fellow ideologues and a small but committed segment of Venezuela's largely poor population, and he is beginning to use the hemisphere's dependence on Venezuelan oil to encourage leftist movements elsewhere and to pressure other countries into acquiescing to his activities. By politicizing and mismanaging the state petroleum industry, Chávez is jeopardizing vital U.S. interests in the Western Hemisphere.
Chavez (and as a result, Venezuela) is nothing but a problem.
Since you insist on discussing Cuba, which has nothing to do with this thread, I'll address your redirect (since you dislike "spin").
Let's see, Cuba estimated per capita GDP for 2007 was a whopping $4,500, as compared to countries such as the Bahamas ($25,000), Argentina ($13,300), Mexico ($12,800), Peru ($7,800) and even Ecuador ($7,200). Looks like Russia really helped them out a whole bunch there, but at least they have a lot of cool 1950's vintage vehicles still in operation, kind of a living car museum.
How disingenuous. Per capita GDP is irrelevant. It isn't how much money you make, it's what you can buy with it.
Now let's do some real comparisons with no spin.
Honduras, Nicaragua and Guatemala have been suffering under US nation building for 150 years and where are they?
51 ▼ (1) Cuba ▲ 0.838
52 ▲ (1) Mexico ▲ 0.829
53 ▲ (1) Bulgaria ▲ 0.824
60 ▬ (0) Romania ▲ 0.813
61 ▲ (15) Saudi Arabia ▲ 0.812
62 ▼ (4) Panama ▲ 0.812
63 ▼ (2) Malaysia ▲ 0.811
66 ▼ (4) Bosnia and Herzegovina ▲ 0.803
67 ▼ (2) Russia ▲ 0.802
70 ▼ (1) Brazil ▲ 0.800
They're much farther ahead in development and standard of living.
This is a great example of why I dislike folks adding irrelevant comparisons (Cuba absolute disengagement vs Venezuela reduction in oil purchases) to threads.
However, since you felt compelled to clarify the economic impact I'll address your point too.
Actually, your index has very little to do with "what you can buy with it". Rather, it is an index which factors in life expectancy and literacy, neither involving purchasing power.
I ask "Do you mean like we strangled Castro economically?" He says talking about past efforts to strangle countries is off-topic. Then he says
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewToCA
This causes greater hardship for their citizens, which is fine with me. .
In other words, here's how NewYoCA's foreign policy goes down:
Venezuela has their own oil, and a free democratic election, but they don't elect "my man". So NewToCA says, no, Venezuelan oil belongs to America, and we'll just bulldoze 26-million Venezuelans off the economic edge of the earth, "which is fine with me" (tell me that is not what we did to Cuba), until we force Venezuelans to elect a Mobil-Exxon lapdog in their free deomcratic election, who will use the oil to benefit NewToCA, instead of the people who own it. If this is not NewToCA's official foreign policy, I challenged him several times to correct me, which he declined to do, instead calling it "spin" that does not interest him. I have no doubt that the plight of people "does not interest him", nearly as much a few cents at the pump for unleaded for his SUV. That's the kind of American he is. . . that we are. . . that people hate . . . that people want to kill. . . . even if they have to become terrorists. . . . whom NewToCA is now really scared of.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
