San Diego Beach Alcohol Ban - Vote YES / NO (fence, solutions, how much)

[Moondogger]

There will always be idiots that will ruin things for the rest. That stupid minority that ruins it for the law abiding majority. A perfect example of this is when people have been told time and time again no glass on the beach and still you see people that show up with glass after glass bottle, morons! Why is it so difficult for some people to follow simple rules?

Anyway, for some one who was also present during the so called "riot" I too agree with those who want to lift the ban. It's ridiculous to punish everyone for the stupidity of a few. There are already enough family beaches around no need to make the only beach that was a party beach into another family beach. Case in point, look at the beach this year compared to last year, how many people are out there, practically no one, why? Because there are very few families in PB to begin with. Everyone knows PB is mostly a college town and some young professionals who still enjoy gathering on the beach to have a few beers.

I would also support Mayor Sanders request to re-instate the ban on major holidays as this is when those idiots from out of town come in and cause trouble and spoil it for the rest of us. Another good point that the mayor made was that by having the drinking and partying on the beach in the open and in daylight it would be easier to police then it if moved into the city into the bars and the neighborhoods.

And also as others have mentioned why such a drastic ban? There were never any problems on the bay or in the parks around the bay. If PB was the only trouble spot then why ban it everywhere?

[batvette]

My backyard fence is on the parking lot at dog beach, so I am directly arffected by this. I also don't drink anymore, not for almost ten years now. I have no interests in any alcohol related business, so you can be sure I have no reason for bias on that account. Which leads me to say.....

ARE WE NUTS?

San Diego's number one industry is tourism. The number one attraction is our beaches. Despite the government trying to do their job of rosy sunglasses, the economy has tanked in the worst way and people are seeing what life is like with NO cash and NO hope it wil get better soon.

so let's get stupid and put PEACE AND QUIET as our number one agenda! We don't need all that NOISE and MESS. Too much trouble to clean up!

The San Diego Chief of Lifeguards has stated he likes the ban because rescues are down and it's so much easier for his staff to "do their jobs". HUH?

Why don't we close the beaches altogether and his job will be REAL easy, and there will be NO rescues! This kind of thinking reflects the mindset of the bureaucrat, who has no need to operate with a profit or worry about expenses.

Yeah it's been real quiet out in that parking lot, on the average friday or saturday night this summer you could count the cars on one hand. It was like a cemetary.

That bothers me, not the sound of the living enjoying life.

The fact is I debated this issue on SignonSanDiego's comments section, and the truth became clear. All the donors on the pro-ban side (which has much more cash than the anti-ban side) were wealthy owners of large homes (call them mansions if you like) in the beach zip codes. Many more supporters are the over 65 crowd who are on fixed incomes and don't worry about going out and hustling for a living any more.

All the problems the proban people complain about already have existing laws on the bookls to address them. Public urination, sexual assault, DWI, drunk in public, loud parties, music..... IT'S ALL AGAINST THE LAW. So what gives?

The rich landowners won't have to deal with all those people coming to THEIR beaches, clogging up the streets and alleys in the summer, and making a commute from the Golden Triangle to their glass and steel castle in Mission or Pacific Beach an hour and a half nightmare on a hot Friday afternoon in July.

And the bulk of San Diego, the peons who depend on tourists and their dollars for bare sustainance..... well we can just eat cake.

Pursuit of peace and quiet as we enter the Great Depression.2: Moronic.

[batvette]

Originally Posted by RD5050

I could not agree more!

The difference in the quality of the beach experience this year is like Night and Day from previous years.

Gone are the thousands of college-aged drinkers that packed the beach at Reed St almost every summer weekend. The beach constantly felt like a huge, extremely crowded, and very noisy "frat party", complete with under-aged drinking, public urination, occasional fist fights, and police arrests.

Now it's just calm and peaceful the entire length of the beach!

Practically no police are required to monitor the beach, except to occasionally fine people for breaking the alcohol ban.

This year, the beach has been absolutely wonderful!

I don't know (or care) what you do for a living, but have you ever laughed at anyone in a service related job saying "my workday would be SO much easier if it weren't for all these damn customers bothering me!"?

The poster you replied to is fortunate to be able to take the detached view afforded her by having a husband with a guaranteed check from the government. (albeit I'm sure he earns it, my 4 years in the Navy were filled with 12-18 hour days) I'm not so sure she'd be so enthusiastic about quiet serence beaches if she worked at a business depending on tourism.

Stop and think if what you think is a "quality beach experience" equates to a healthy San Diego, when so many San Diegans make livings from the crowds you don't like.

As for the family aspect, ever hear anyone say "he was out spending money like a five year old!" hehe.... isn't it "drunken sailor"? Families bring little money to spend foolishly, usually pack a picnic lunch and keep the $$$ at home in junior's college fund. Police? Hello, tax revenues?

The economy is DEAD and we want to stifle San Diego's #1 industry. SMART.

[Ashelton]

Originally Posted by RD5050

I can now see that this thread is being overtaken by people who are joining City-Data forum specifically to comment on our Alcohol Ban threads.

I am guessing they are from the VoteNoOnPropD website.

Most likely they are doing a web search for "San Diego Alcohol Ban" and then making comments on whatever websites they find talking about the ban.

Three of them joined today, and their only posts have been in the ban alcohol threads.

It looks like they are even adding reputation points for each other's posts.

This wasn't what I had originally hoped for in this poll.

I was hoping to conduct an honest poll, with just the regular City-Data members participating, so the vote wouldn't be skewed one way or the other.

Its pretty amazing that you feel you presented this poll unbiasedly. It seems to me you're just angry because public opinion against the ban is much greater than what you had anticipated. "That wasn't what I had originally hoped for in this poll". What did you hope for? A landslide vote in the other direction because you had a link to a beach "fight" video (I refuse to use the word riot). This website seems to be here so balanced arguments can be made about political issues. Please do not try to dominate this forum. Let everyone's opinions on this subject be heard.

[1AngryTaxPayer]

Not only does this ban alcohol at the beach look at all the other City parks INLAND that is bans too! I can't even have one at my favorite park 7 miles from PB. WTH?

[batvette]

I can now see that this thread is being overtaken by people who are joining City-Data forum specifically to comment on our Alcohol Ban threads.

pssst... don't tell anyone this secret information, but the san diego registrar of voters has told us he has arranged for your message board poll to be the ONLY one on the entire internet not counted and applied to prop D in the general election!
so I guess all that money that ban opponents paid us to run around the internets fouling up polls was wasted in this case.
damn shame, they're strapped for cash as IIRC public records show something like a 10:1 disparity in the "war chests" of the two sides on contributions.

(I can't speak for everyone new here but I certainly didn't join just to comment on the ban, and of course you posted that log before anyway. Give yourself credit for picking a hot button issue that was pollworthy)

[sav858]

Here is a map of the large donors to ban alcohol on the beach, just take a look at where they live. These elitists basically want the beach for themselves and they could care less that it hurts SD's economy and tourism on top of taking the rights of responsible citizens awaty. Please DONATE and help the No on Prop D cause.
No on Prop D - No on the City Wide Permanent Alcohol Ban at San Diego Beaches and Parks, Proposition D

[1AngryTaxPayer]

I've been saying that from day 1, a lot of people bought places in their 30s after they partied away their 20s and now want to modify the hood to match their current life style. It's everyone's beach, not just the rich.

[ban researcher]

Facts:

• Tourism is and has always been San Diego’s number 1 industry next to military revenue. The negative effect the temporary ban has had on tourism and our local economy is now abundantly clear. The City of San Diego desperately needs this revenue. Twenty percent fewer people attended the beaches on average this summer and nearly 50 percent fewer people on the holiday weekends (San Diego Lifeguard Beach Statistics).

No one has ever complained that San Diego doesn’t have enough beaches. We already segregate one beach.

* Those vocal few who fantasize Prohibition …well, unfortunately for you, Prohibition hasn’t ever worked and never will …simply put, people will always drink.

• I think we can all agree that San Diego is a major college town, and that is not going to change. When the students are unwinding durring a holiday break, I challenge you to argue that the beach is the safest place for them to be. A person cannot harm the sand or hurt the water and it is even difficult to harm each other playing sports in the sand, right?
•
If there is one point that is the most important,:
It’s a good idea to ask the experts when making a decision and the expert on problems at the beaches is clearly SDPD Northern Division Captain Long.
"I want to be perfectly clear about this," Captain Long stated, "and I've said it before. If we take the alcohol and remove it from the beach, it is my belief and my professional opinion that it will increase the number of people who attend house parties along the beach, and it's going to increase the number of people in the bars. Therefore, it will take some of the problem that we see on the beach, which doesn't even compare with the problems we already see inland, and it's going to make those problems worse." At least on the beach, the police have an ideal enforcement environment: they can approach whomever they want, without the need of a complaint or warrant.
KEEP OUR BEACHES SAFE & LET THEM TEAR UP OUR NEIGHBORHOODS INSTEAD ! is a narrow minded answer.
The Mayor (former Police Chief) does not agree with a year-round alcohol ban. The Police Chief did not personally endorse the “yes on prop D” .
* Residents in beach-area communities like Pacific Beach and Mission Beach are different than those in other areas because many are younger, don’t have children and tend to have more parties as we all did when young.


* Most people are not aware that “Generation Me” doesn’t need alcohol or drugs to act irresponsible.

Because of a few we already lost the PB Block party venue. What is next? Petco Park ? The stadium ?

Statistics out of context are not productive. Alcohol related citations have dropped at the beach during the ban BUT NOT AS MUCH AT THE BEACH ATTENDANCE HAS DECREASED according to lifeguard stats…ie; citations have INCREASED per visitor !!!

It was just revealed that Beach Ban advocates received over 85% of their donations from Beach front property owners who desire less people on THEIR beach. East coast property owners can build fences out into the water to keep the public out of their beaches.

Sometimes propositions are worded in a restricted way. We prefer things easy & black or white. Both sides have some valid issues. Understand that there is no one that is against Prop D that is for irresponsible behavior. We all get caught at times voting for a candidate that is simply “the lesser of the evils”.
Well, looking at the big picture, “No o Prop D” is the lesser of the evils.


A Few of the Proposed Solutions

The list includes:
increasing San Diego Police Department’s Beach Team officers,
and/or hiring off-duty police as beach-specific neighborhood code compliance officers,
several education campaigns against drunk driving

harsher penalties for out-of-control house parties,

as we already have a segregated beach, segregate alcohol v.s. family beaches.

more trash bins and

increased seasonal restrooms. (We likely have a bathroom concern out on the beach," SDPD Captain Long acknowledges.)

The representative committee did reach common ground illustrated by a list of 16 action items given to community members at the meeting.
The list of consensus-items includes:
programs aimed at increasing the number police officers in beach areas such

installation of security cameras and

[1AngryTaxPayer]

If you want to dig into the mindset of the residents that own beach front property all you have to do is look at the area by Reed. See how narrow the board walk is? It took the City FOREVER to get the rest of the board walk back from these squatters so the City could widen it. To them the entire area, beach included is theirs. Those are some of the same that are pushing the ban.