Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
"But civic marriage in the U.S. is in part to encourage heterosexual couples to bear and raise children in committed married relationships."
I don't know of any laws in the U.S. that say marriage is for raising children. Children are not required for marriage, and marriage is not required to have children. It's an empty argument.
Ha. Tell that to the majority of people throughout history whose marriages were arranged by their parents for status and financial security. Children weren't important throughout most of history when it came to marriage.
There are communities nowadays, like orthodox Jews or Hindus where arranged marriages are a norm. Tell them it is not for the kids
Inability to have children was throughout history one of the legitimate reasons to end marriage.
You have no clue, bud.
No, I asked for evidence showing that it was to encourage procreation, and by something other than an anti-gay religion. How would what you just typed apply to the subject of gay marriage?
I just love the contradiction, though. It's supposedly about kids having a good home to live in. Yet, the opposition to gays adopting would decrease the number of potential perfectly qualified applicants. And so would the opposition to gays marrying, since being married is considered a plus.
It is my opinion children are the reason government involves itself in marriage. Government exist to promote and endorse those things which make for a better and stronger nation. I don't think anyone is arguing that our children are not the single most important part of our future.
That being said, if a gay couple is allowed to adopt in their state, the state should offer the same types of protections and benefits of any married couple, because they are then engaging in the most important part of our future, rising children.
You either pretend or don't realize that the Catholic doctrine and law WAS the authority on marriage. Before French revolution there was no such thing as civil marriage in Europe as there was no separation of church and state. We are of course talking about tradition of marriage not it's present state.
You're talking about a "tradition" of marriage you actually agree with, not what it was in the beginning. And if you wish to argue that marriage does not predate the Abrahamic religions, I'll need to see substantiation of that claim as well.
Unfortunately for you, new meanings of the word and the concept are taking root, and they will become a "traditional meaning of marriage" someday.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzarama
If you care to, take the sentence from Loving, the Whole sentence --- "Marriage is one of the "basic civil rights of man," fundamental to our very existence and survival." Follow the Loving cites. You think Loving and other cases had ssm and gay adoption in mind with the words, 'marriage is the foundation of the family and of society, without which there would be neither civilization nor progress.'
What difference does it make? Why should it even be considered in this debate?
I don't know of any laws in the U.S. that say marriage is for raising children. Children are not required for marriage, and marriage is not required to have children. It's an empty argument.
It's an empty argument to those who misrepresent or just don't understand.
I don't know of any laws in the U.S. that say marriage is for raising children. Children are not required for marriage, and marriage is not required to have children. It's an empty argument.
Lazy argument. What is the alternative, a nation of bastards, raised by the state?
If you say it long enough, you may be able to convince yourself that up is down.
(to AnUnidentifiedMale) It's an empty argument to those who misrepresent or just don't understand.
Or for those of us who understand that your belief that "civic marriage in the U.S. is in part to encourage"- well, anything, actually (much less "heterosexual couples to bear and raise children") is entirely unfounded. This is merely what you want to believe.
But even if you were right, it makes no difference. Regardless of what marriage used to be, what it's becoming is allowing gay couples to get married. And I haven't seen a single good reason to keep them (and no other couples who are of the legal age to consent, unrelated, and unmarried) from being able to do this.
OK Vic 2.0 You Forced My Hand Here A Couple Of Scriptures
Romans 1:18-32
But God shows his anger from heaven against all sinful, wicked people who suppress the truth by their wickedness.... Yes, they knew God, but they wouldn't worship him as God or even give him thanks. And they began to think up foolish ideas of what God was like. As a result, their minds became dark and confused. Claiming to be wise, they instead became utter fools. And instead of worshiping the glorious, ever-living God, they worshiped idols made to look like mere people and birds and animals and reptiles. So God abandoned them to do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other's bodies. They traded the truth about God for a lie. So they worshiped and served the things God created instead of the Creator himself, who is worthy of eternal praise! Amen. That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relations with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men, and as a result of this sin, they suffered within themselves the penalty they deserved.
Since they thought it foolish to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their foolish thinking and let them do things that should never be done. Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, quarreling, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They invent new ways of sinning, and they disobey their parents. They refuse to understand, break their promises, are heartless, and have no mercy. They know God's justice requires that those who do these things deserve to die, yet they do them anyway. Worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too. (NLT)
I see no victories in the bible for gays who refuse to repent and change theirs life styles.
Romans 1:18-32
But God shows his anger from heaven against all sinful, wicked people who suppress the truth by their wickedness.... Yes, they knew God, but they wouldn't worship him as God or even give him thanks. And they began to think up foolish ideas of what God was like. As a result, their minds became dark and confused. Claiming to be wise, they instead became utter fools. And instead of worshiping the glorious, ever-living God, they worshiped idols made to look like mere people and birds and animals and reptiles. So God abandoned them to do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other's bodies. They traded the truth about God for a lie. So they worshiped and served the things God created instead of the Creator himself, who is worthy of eternal praise! Amen. That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relations with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men, and as a result of this sin, they suffered within themselves the penalty they deserved.
Since they thought it foolish to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their foolish thinking and let them do things that should never be done. Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, quarreling, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They invent new ways of sinning, and they disobey their parents. They refuse to understand, break their promises, are heartless, and have no mercy. They know God's justice requires that those who do these things deserve to die, yet they do them anyway. Worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too. (NLT)
I see no victories in the bible for gays who refuse to repent and change theirs life styles.
As usual, you know nothing about the Bible and pull things out of context. For one, Romans 1 specifically says it's referring to pagan worship rituals. I don't know a single gay person engaging in sex in pagan temples. 2) It is statistically impossible for that verse to be talking directly to gays, since the overwhelming majority of that audience would have been straights. And 3)
You conveniently ignore Romans 2.
2 You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. 2 Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. 3 So when you, a mere human being, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment?
If Romans 1 is condemning gays, by Paul's very own statement, you yourself are gay and engage in the gay lifestyle, because you do the exact same thing that you are condemning gays for. And you will not escape God's judgement for your condemnation of them.
Romans 1:18-32
But God shows his anger from heaven against all sinful, wicked people who suppress the truth by their wickedness.... Yes, they knew God, but they wouldn't worship him as God or even give him thanks. And they began to think up foolish ideas of what God was like. As a result, their minds became dark and confused. Claiming to be wise, they instead became utter fools. And instead of worshiping the glorious, ever-living God, they worshiped idols made to look like mere people and birds and animals and reptiles. So God abandoned them to do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other's bodies. They traded the truth about God for a lie. So they worshiped and served the things God created instead of the Creator himself, who is worthy of eternal praise! Amen. That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relations with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men, and as a result of this sin, they suffered within themselves the penalty they deserved.
Since they thought it foolish to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their foolish thinking and let them do things that should never be done. Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, quarreling, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They invent new ways of sinning, and they disobey their parents. They refuse to understand, break their promises, are heartless, and have no mercy. They know God's justice requires that those who do these things deserve to die, yet they do them anyway. Worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too. (NLT)
I see no victories in the bible for gays who refuse to repent and change theirs life styles.
What does the bible have to do with civil marriage law?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
OK Vic 2.0 You Forced My Hand Here A Couple Of Scriptures
