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Yes - I would advocate force to prevent the breakup of the Union... So did Lincoln... Do you want to attack him also???
Why don't you just leave the country if you hate it???
I do not think the ones letting our federal government know they are over stepping their bounds as being America hating. I find it quite the opposite. When the Government stops governing by our founding documents the country ceases to be America. I love my country, but hate the federal government. Not because Obama is in office, but because they are doing everything in their power, including the former bush administration to destroy our very foundation.
more and more of what our founding fathers spoke of is becoming relevant again. Let me give you a few quotes.
"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent."
Thomas Jefferson
I would say that the tyrant peoples are ticked off because good people are now voicing their discontent with our rights being trampled on (patriot act) and our voices being ignored (bail out.)
Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.
Thomas Jefferson
"Single acts of tyranny may be ascribed to the accidental opinion of a day; but a series of oppressions, begun at a distinguished period and pursued unalterably through every change of ministers, too plainly prove a deliberate, systematic plan of reducing [a people] to slavery." --Thomas Jefferson: Rights of British America, 1774. (*) ME 1:193, Papers 1:125
"The oppressed should rebel, and they will continue to rebel and raise disturbance until their civil rights are fully restored to them and all partial distinctions, exclusions and incapacitations are removed." --Thomas Jefferson: Notes on Religion, 1776. Papers 1:548
"It is unfortunate that the efforts of mankind to recover the freedom of which they have been so long deprived, will be accompanied with violence, with errors, and even with crimes. But while we weep over the means, we must pray for the end." --Thomas Jefferson to Francois D'Ivernois, 1795. ME 9:300
Am I saying Violence is needed? NO, it is not time for violence, we have not reached that point, and I pray we never do. We can still bring our government back into its rightful place as subservient to the peoples of the United States of America.
more and more of what our founding fathers spoke of is becoming relevant again. Let me give you a few quotes...
I always find it interesting that when quoting the founding father(s) the quotes seem to be single sourced and in this case single sourced to one who by the wasy did not participate in the Constitutional Convention.
It is an unquestionable truth, that the body of the people in every country desire sincerely its prosperity. But it is equally unquestionable that they do not possess the discernment and stability necessary for systematic government. To deny that they are frequently led into the grossest of errors, by misinformation and passion, would be a flattery which their own good sense must despise.
Alexander Hamilton, speech to the Ratifying Convention of New York, June, 1788
A government ought to contain in itself every power requisite to the full accomplishment of the objects committed to its care, and to the complete execution of the trusts for which it is responsible, free from every other control but a regard to the public good and to the sense of the people.
Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 31, January 1, 1788
"It is the nature & essence of a compact that it is equally obligatory on the parties to it, and of course that no one of them can be liberated therefrom without the consent of the others, or such a violation or abuse of it by the others, as will amount to a dissolution of the compact.
Applying this view of the subject to a single community, it results, that the compact being between the individuals composing it, no individual or set of individuals can at pleasure, break off and set up for themselves, without such a violation of the compact as absolves them from its obligations. It follows at the same time that, in the event of such a violation, the suffering party rather than longer yield a passive obedience may justly shake off the yoke, and can only be restrained from the attempt by a want of physical strength for the purpose. The case of individuals expatriating themselves, that is leaving their country in its territorial as well as its social & political sense, may well be deemed a reasonable privilege, or rather as a right impliedly reserved. And even in this case equitable conditions have been annexed to the right which qualify the exercise of it.
Applying a like view of the subject to the case of the U. S. it results, that the compact being among individuals as imbodied into States, no State can at pleasure release itself therefrom, and set up for itself. The compact can only be dissolved by the consent of the other parties, or by usurpations or abuses of power justly having that effect. It will hardly be contended that there is anything in the terms or nature of the compact, authorizing a party to dissolve it at pleasure."
I always find it interesting that when quoting the founding father(s) the quotes seem to be single sourced and in this case single sourced to one who by the wasy did not participate in the Constitutional Convention.
It is an unquestionable truth, that the body of the people in every country desire sincerely its prosperity. But it is equally unquestionable that they do not possess the discernment and stability necessary for systematic government. To deny that they are frequently led into the grossest of errors, by misinformation and passion, would be a flattery which their own good sense must despise.
Alexander Hamilton, speech to the Ratifying Convention of New York, June, 1788
A government ought to contain in itself every power requisite to the full accomplishment of the objects committed to its care, and to the complete execution of the trusts for which it is responsible, free from every other control but a regard to the public good and to the sense of the people.
Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 31, January 1, 1788
"It is the nature & essence of a compact that it is equally obligatory on the parties to it, and of course that no one of them can be liberated therefrom without the consent of the others, or such a violation or abuse of it by the others, as will amount to a dissolution of the compact.
Applying this view of the subject to a single community, it results, that the compact being between the individuals composing it, no individual or set of individuals can at pleasure, break off and set up for themselves, without such a violation of the compact as absolves them from its obligations. It follows at the same time that, in the event of such a violation, the suffering party rather than longer yield a passive obedience may justly shake off the yoke, and can only be restrained from the attempt by a want of physical strength for the purpose. The case of individuals expatriating themselves, that is leaving their country in its territorial as well as its social & political sense, may well be deemed a reasonable privilege, or rather as a right impliedly reserved. And even in this case equitable conditions have been annexed to the right which qualify the exercise of it.
Applying a like view of the subject to the case of the U. S. it results, that the compact being among individuals as imbodied into States, no State can at pleasure release itself therefrom, and set up for itself. The compact can only be dissolved by the consent of the other parties, or by usurpations or abuses of power justly having that effect. It will hardly be contended that there is anything in the terms or nature of the compact, authorizing a party to dissolve it at pleasure."
James Madison's Letter to Nicolas P. Trist, 1830
funny that you would quote the one founding father that wanted big government, that wanted government control over people, and that government should seek "imperial glory" He was at odds with nearly every one of the other founders of our great nation. Thomas Jefferson as well as many of the founders wanted government only to be big enough to protect our "natural rights" nothing more, nothing less.
he fought for a permanent president that would elect all governing body's, the president would have veto powers over all states legislation.... sounds very "king" like right? It goes far deeper than that. Essentially Hamilton wanted a monarchy in America, loved collecting taxes, see the Whiskey Rebellion. Wanted a standing army, not to protect the peoples, but to be used for intimidation for tax collection. All of his ideas were defeated during the Convention.
An overly large and powerful central government was something that the founders wanted to avoid , at all costs. That is an inarguable fact. Individual liberty was very dear to them, and a central power dictating to the citizens was abhorant to their views. For good reason. They were casting off rule by monarchy, that they would choose to wish to establish a new dictatorial power for their new government is just absurd. Were there some who wished a new aristocracy? Certainly. But that was not a popular view at the time of our revolution. Now here we are, debating with a group of people who wish such a power granted to our federal government. I have to wonder if the folks who tout the government as the answer to all our woes see themselves in some position of power within that dreamed of all encompassing body of federal benevolence and all knowing , all seeing control. Handing over our rights and liberty's in such a way, and accepting governmental power into our lives as the guiding light . I fail to see how ANYONE could wish such a thing or believe that this is what our founding fathers saw as the future of our nation.
funny that you would quote the one founding father that wanted big government,
Not funny at at, simply illustrative of the fact that its rather fallacious to make the "intent of the founders" argument when the fact is the intent was as varied as the 50 delegates to the Constitutional Convention. This is why we rely not only upon the comments of the Constitutions drafters, the Constitution and subsequent Court decisions to craft what the Constitution means in everyday terms.
This discussion has taken an interesting turn. When talk of what is considered 'treasonous' now boils down to supporting or not supporting the president that is a dangerous road. LOTS of folks are 'treasonous' if thats the criteria. I think Obama is a naive and misguided dreamer with delusions of grandeur. Am I a 'traitor'? I also though that W was an idiot, riding on daddy's coat tails that invaded Iraq believing that public support would be high (because most folks out here thought we should have done this in 91 anyway) and it was an easy 'win'. IMHO, we should have took out Iran before Iraq. So I guess I have been 'treasonous' (LMAO)since the Carter years if loyalty to the pres is the baseline. Our loyalty to our country is not contingent on our support of the president. Hardly. I find it amusing how the tables have turned from 'I hate Bush and WON"T support him' to "You 'neocons' better get on board and support Obama...he IS the president!' Rather hypocritical to demand loyalty on that basis when these folks would not do the same. This talk of secession is a statement of disatisfaction. Nothing more, nothing less. The 1st mmendment allows statements of disatisfaction. There is no requirement that they be eloquent or rational. If there were the 'left' would not be able to speak out any more than the 'right'. Neither side (on the far extremes anyway) has made a rational statement, of any kind, for quite some time.
Nicely put, there are very few in DC that have done anything good for the country. Rather than secede maybe we can just dismiss conrgress and have a do over. I am a big supporter of congressional term limits.
What is treason is truth in an empire of lies.
The truth is texas has a just cause and well as many states and individuals of federal government is abusing it power. Would it be wrong if the federal government reinstated slavery and then for some states talk of secession. I find talk and action of secession means we are at a time of where freedom once again is under threat. The man that was elected to protect texas is doing just that and individual state rights in the constitution. Liberty is always under attack. When will you all wake up and realize the federal government is to big and has to much power over states and individuals. If we really want to discuss treason their are many presidents, congressmen and women who fall right in line with treason activities.
What is treason is truth in an empire of lies.
The truth is texas has a just cause and well as many states and individuals of federal government is abusing it power. Would it be wrong if the federal government reinstated slavery and then for some states talk of secession. I find talk and action of secession means we are at a time of where freedom once again is under threat. The man that was elected to protect texas is doing just that and individual state rights in the constitution. Liberty is always under attack. When will you all wake up and realize the federal government is to big and has to much power over states and individuals. If we really want to discuss treason their are many presidents, congressmen and women who fall right in line with treason activities.
You are a great American! Lets include the NY TRASH (NYTIMES) even though they will be out of business soon. I bet the Dems will send them some stilulus money, what would they do with out them and the Washington Compost. NY Times is guilty of treason for publishing the CIA leal regarding wiretappings methods. You all remember that don't ya? Yes, they revealed the how it worked, they keywords, the origins of the calls, etc, etc. The liberal media is just as guilty for destroying this country with thier 1 sided reporting or lack there of. Who gives a cr@p about Sarah Palins wardrobe or her pregnant daughter. NBC, what a Joke. CNN 2 different shows, the ones we see here and the ones shown in Muslim countries. It is disgusting.
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. I have to wonder if the folks who tout the government as the answer to all our woes see themselves in some position of power within that dreamed of all encompassing body of federal benevolence and all knowing , all seeing control. Handing over our rights and liberty's in such a way, and accepting governmental power into our lives as the guiding light 
. I fail to see how ANYONE could wish such a thing or believe that this is what our founding fathers saw as the future of our nation.
Republican Secession talk borders on treason
