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And the bar fight victim wouldn't be a victim if they weren't at a bar.
They also weren't targeted solely because they are a bar patron. What does that have to do with what we are talking about?
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Originally Posted by TXboomerang
People have various reasons for picking a target for their hate and violence. I do not see how being part a specific group should elevate the charges over someone who is not part of a specific group. Are we not all humans?
And I don't see what the problem is with accurately identifying the specific circumstances leading to a crime meant to intimidate or punish based on the characteristics of the victim. Other than to deny that these sorts of prejudices exist. Or to apologize for them. Or cover them.
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Originally Posted by TXboomerang
Thats okay though. I am used to people who argue in one breath that everybody is the same and deserves equal rights/protections on one topic, then turn around on another topic and all of the sudden the equal rights/protections go out the window to accomodate special interests.
Pretty lame statement, just because some don't agree with gays doesn't mean they would want anyone to be raped, it just goes to show some gays don't get it. I can disagree with a lot of things but I would never wish violence on anyone, theres a big difference.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the OP is gay. Plus your statement bolded above only shows YOU don't get it - and can't keep from digging at the gay community, even when you're claiming it doesn't affect your opinions of this incident. I hope these "men" are brought to justice swiftly and harshly...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gizmo980
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the OP is gay. Plus your statement bolded above only shows YOU don't get it - and can't keep from digging at the gay community, even when you're claiming it doesn't affect your opinions of this incident. I hope these "men" are brought to justice swiftly and harshly...
What Roaddog was trying to say is that just because Christians and other conservatives do not agree with homosexuality does not mean that we feel that gays and lesbians need to be victimized. The crime was sickening and I agree that these men need to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
They also weren't targeted solely because they are a bar patron. What does that have to do with what we are talking about?
What doesn't it have to do with it? The bar patron wouldn't be attacked if they weren't at the bar. The gay person wouldn't be attacked if they weren't gay.
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And I don't see what the problem is with accurately identifying the specific circumstances leading to a crime meant to intimidate or punish based on the characteristics of the victim. Other than to deny that these sorts of prejudices exist. Or to apologize for them. Or cover them.
Hmmm, think like you do, or I must have some evil motivation for my thoughts. Got it.
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So, it's only black and white to you, hmm?
That explains much.
No, its HUMAN. You are the one supporting the idea of special protections and legal rights for specific groups, on this topic anyway. While it would be an assumption, I would assume that on other topics regarding rights/protections, you are always carrying the "everyone is equal" banner.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theliberalvoice
Lesbian's brutal gang rape investigated in Calif. - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081223/ap_on_re_us/lesbian_rape - broken link)
I wonder how happy the anti gays are about this. So how long will it be until someone says that she deserved this for being lesbian?
I for one hope she gets justice.
This poster is demonstrating a lack of understanding about Christians and conservatives with this statement. No one who is a true Christian would condone the victimization of another human being regardless of whether we agree with his/her lifestyle or not. No true Christian would take joy about this attack on another human being. This woman was the victim of a horrible crime and the perps need to be punished to the fullest extent of the law.
There is a lot more that seperates first degree murder and manslaughter than whether or not the criminal hated the victim.
Actually, the reason for the murder IS taken into account... you can even get a reduced charge for "crimes of passion," where (for example) a scorned lover kills the cheater. Motivation is almost always considered in a trial, regardless of the victim's sexuality, gender, ethnic group, etc.
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Shouldn't wife beaters get charged with hate crimes because they hate women and think they are subhuman and deserve to be beaten? Doesn't happen. Why? Because the group isn't specific enough. Hate laws draw up lines based on being non white or homo/bisexual. It is not an evenly applied concept and is very flawed.
As it was already mentioned, women do get "special protection" under the law, as domestic violence is charged differently than a regular assault... but I think you already knew that.
Actually, the reason for the murder IS taken into account... you can even get a reduced charge for "crimes of passion," where (for example) a scorned lover kills the cheater.
Equal rights/protections would have this covered for gays and minorities. If a gay person murders as a crime of passion, they already have the same legal standing in the motives.
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Motivation is almost always considered in a trial, regardless of the victim's sexuality, gender, ethnic group, etc
The point that is being missed is the VICTIM, not the criminal. Why should VICTIMS that aren't part of special groups have to watch their violators punished with less forcefulness than so called "hate crime" victims?
gay hate crimes happen all the time. But you know what's weird. I've noticed that they happen mostly in liberal area's with large gay populations.
That happens because the gay-haters usually know exactly where to go to find easy targets. Straight men have even been beaten; the bashers (who often aren't very bright) just assume that if a guy is in a gay part of town, he must be gay. That's why many hate crimes laws include not only sexual orientation, but also perceived sexual orientation.
This poster is demonstrating a lack of understanding about Christians and conservatives with this statement. No one who is a true Christian would condone the victimization of another human being regardless of whether we agree with his/her lifestyle or not. No true Christian would take joy about this attack on another human being. This woman was the victim of a horrible crime and the perps need to be punished to the fullest extent of the law.
There was no Inquisition, there were no crusades, and nobody was hung in Salem for being witches.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Veridian
There was no Inquisition, there were no crusades, and nobody was hung in Salem for being witches.
Not everyone who claims to be Christian is one. The perps who headed the crusades, inquisition and Salem witch hunts were not Christians as Christ calls us to love our neighbors (which includes the non-believers).
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I hope these "men" are brought to justice swiftly and harshly...
